One thing for certain looking at your example was that, within this taxing regime, resource companies had the option to deduct start up expenditure from the amount that was assessable once they derived an income from the sale of petroleum products. In the context of this debate about poker, there are some that believe any change to the law won't involve any ability for a taxpayer to use deductions to lessen the amount of tax they have to pay.

Let's get back to this issue of deducting losses:

The basic premise of deductions is found in the positive limbs of section 8(1) of the ITAA97 -

You can deduct from your assessable income any loss or outgoing to the extent that:

(a) it is incurred in gaining or producing your assessable income, or
(b) it is necessarily incurred in carrying on a business for the purpose of gaining or producing your assessable income.

And to be viewed in conjunction with the negative limbs of section 8(2) -

However, you cannot deduct a loss or outgoing under this section to the extent that:

(a) it is a loss or outgoing of capital, or a capital nature; or
(b) it is a loss or outgoing of a private or domestic nature; or
(c) it is incurred in relation to gaining or producing your exempt income or your non-assessable non-exempt income, or
(d) a provision of this Act prevents you from deducting it

In relation to the negative limbs, we can rule out section 8(2)(b) because poker earnings will not be of a private or domestic nature if they are legislated to be included in one's assessable income. Now barring the effect of section 8(2)(d) as they seem to relate to specific expenses that can't be or are limited deductions, it follows that any loss incurred which is "relevant and incidental" in producing poker income can be deducted.

And if we extend the reasoning out to the overall gambling picture, it will actually cost the government revenue if it decides to tax poker winnings because of the overwhelming majority that lose - people will start deducting their lotto tickets, TAB bets - if they start doing the sums and realise what they have paid out is more than what they have got back which they will, on the whole , come to that conclusion.

Deducting losses off what?

So you're saying if I buy 50 lotto tickets at $1 per ticket, at the end of the year after I lost them all, I can claim back $50 in tickets? The government is just gonna give me a % of my losses back despite not paying any tax?

I dont think this is going to happen. If the government wants to start getting tax off pro poker players, they arent going to open this door

Its more than reasonable to assume they'll create a legislation that leaves mum and dad gamblers alone and taxes profitable players who dont have a job.

Yes as long as you have derived assessable income elsewhere and this has been your only gambling activity throughout the year.

Just as long as they are allowed to deduct their losses I have no problem with them doing it from a theoretical sense.

No need to panic. This is just an update on the ongoing ripples from the UK legislation.

BetFred have pulled out of more than a dozen markets completely, due to “regulatory and general licensing processes” - not Austalia!

http://pokerfuse.com/news/poker-room...atory-reasons/

BetFred has a regional licence in the Northern Territories and has just launched a mobile app there so clearly they still want to serve the Aus market legally..trouble is it is hard to see how they can claim poker is legal under that licence.

Now BetFred have gone early, William Hill did a purge not long ago too (55 countries) but I suspect there is more to come.

BetFred are affiliated to i-Poker (Playtech) and both Playtech and BetFred will need a UK licence by the end of November to operate in the Uk.

I may have called Stars and Australia wrong, I may lose my $100 but the ripples are if anything rolling out quicker than I expected.

Richas don't get me wrong I think you add a lot to this thread but please don't keep bumping it because of movements in the UK regulatory scene.

This thread is a complete abortion. Lock it down and take the polical/tax discussions to the correct forum.
If your primary income is gambling you can deduct losses already. Gambling is not tax free in OZ if you are a profesional.

Good to see you bothered to read the entire thread before posting this, especially the bolded part.

And run it like a business, employ people etc

So how are we feeling after the countries banned without warning today? Does current Australian law explicitly ban online poker or some integral aspect of it? If so, might need to pack up and head to... Well, idk where at this point.

From what i've heard we're still okay. As far as I know it's only illegal to offer gambling to Australian citizens if your company is based in Australia (eg. Carbon) - Stars might have to close their Sydney office if it still exists (don't remember whether it does or not offhand) but I don't see them pulling out of Australia unless the Australian government forces them to as we matter significantly more as a market than random countries that provide next to no traffic.

Still like my side on Stars operating in Australia on Jan 1 2015. The moves today are worrying but i'm confident we're not getting banned and if we do it'll come with significant warning

I think the worst thing that could happen would be Abbott government re-elected and Xenophon holds the balance of power in the Senate outright, short of that though we should be ok. I hope.

In Aus it is an offence for a foreign site to offer remote gambling, just not an offense for you to take them up on the offer. The firm is criminalised not the individual.

My initial check of the list that closed suddenly, without notice, is that they seem to be the blackest of black markets: those that criminalise the players. Hence a quite sudden decision.

I would expect more notice for the big black for firms but not players markets like Aus and Russia.

I still don't like my side of the Stars out of Aus by year end bet as it is not a good outcome for Aus players but it is clearly +ev for the charity I'll be paying any win to.

NZ is all good as far as online poker legislation goes, yeah? Might just apply for my visa there now just in case lol

I'm afraid the Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (and s. 15 in particular) does ban the provision of online poker to Australian residents regardless of whether the company offering it is based in Australia or overseas (see, e.g., s. 14 and s. 64).

I can't see even the slightest hint of an argument that Pokerstars operates lawfully by allowing Australian residents to play on its site. (Happy for someone to contradict me, of course).

So the ban exists - it may not be enforced right now, but it exists.

It seems to me to follow that Pokerstars must continue to allow Australian players to play on its site knowing full well that it is breaking Australian law and is liable for penalties of up to $340,000 per day that it operates. I can only assume that it continues to operate because it has taken a view that, although its business is illegal, the prospect of enforcement is low.

A brave decision, but one for which I, at least, am grateful.

One for which Amaya, a publicly-traded company, will not allow to continue indefinitely.

So at this stage if they were to pull out (In the near future) it'd be a business decision from Amaya rather than the Government forcing their hand?

If so, if the worst happens we should still be good to play on other sites for the foreseeable future?

Also, what about the ANZPT/APPT?

That would surely be gone, too, and that combined with the amount of Australian players seems like a lot to lose if their hand isn't forced.

Stars wont give up on us unless their hand is forced imo losing anzpt appt and the aus nz playerbase would hurt. I doubt its a govt priority to enforce a not profitable to enforce law when the government is in dire steaits as is and we have the pub and club industry on our side as theyll be worried any changes to gambling laws may affect their pokies revenue. Plus if they did ban poker theyd be taking 100 of richas dollars away from charity. Do you hate charities mr abbott?

Given that Stars and 888 were pulled from the app store due to legal questions, I would have thought that is reason enough to be concerned. Couple that with Stars needing a squeaky clean image to get back into the US market and Aus being such a small market I cant see them playing around in the grey area. Why sacrifice possible billions in revenue for the millions they get here.

Aussie newbie - any chance of some cliffs?

i thought with our treaty we can just hop back and forth no dramas?

Australians can, I'm an American

next to 0% chance that gets banned by the Govt considering the more pressing issues. Far greater chance is actually a loosening of the laws to allow the service to be provided with some tax repercussions, but good luck figuring out how that will work.
Ppl previous are correct, technically stars is breaking the law, but in reality they will be very unlikely to pull the pin on revenue raising countries when they are losing market share and countries where the ban is in place.

it's technically illegal for sites to offer online poker here, Abbott said in '13 he'd crackdown and thankfully hasn't yet, now we're ****ting the bed Amaya might do the work for him after they pulled out of a bunch of markets overnight

wow... so canada, australia and all arabs countries will be gone... the end is near

the countries stars got rid off make up basically nothing of the total player pool bar the random rec player.

stars wont boot us, just like they wont boot russia/canada, if we get booted itd be because of mr abbott and lets face it, his pretty occupied trying to segregate muslims from society atm.