No we're not looking at a seg pool (99%+ on this but joey can confirm thats not in any of the various drafted legislation possibilities and the senators in the commission etc seemed to clearly understand why its a bad idea and global player pool w/ licensing fees/taxes for the operators is the way to go)

Govt will gain revenue from the big sites (eg stars party etc) through both licensing and I assume on a share of their profit from the Australian portion of their business. It'll probably be similar to how sports betting in aus works where the govt either gets a flat share of all rake (eg 0.5% of turnover style that they get from some sportsbooks) and/or x% of company profit in australia + licensing fees (eg a site might have to pay say 200k a year flat fee plus x% of profit or whatever as regular tax revenue same as any corporation doing business here, or say 200k a year flat fee plus say 10 percent of all rake taken from aus customers or whatever). I assume the former is more likely than the latter

But cliffs there is absolutely no reason to think there would be segregated player pools, the senate hearing seemed to clearly agree w/ us that if online poker was licensed it would be based on the UK model as that has by far been the most successful in providing player protections + also providing tax revenue for the govt from operators etc

We will have a better idea of where we stand within a few weeks after Joey has met with the minister and given us an update as to whether this is happening the year via being attached to an unrelated must pass bill or whatever on the governments agenda, or if it isn't then what the next step is as far as lobbying to make it happen is concerned. For now we let him do his thing, and he will tell us whether this is passing quietly behind the scenes or whether it's time for us to lobby (various parties involved don't want us lobbying for now, so carry on doing nothing for the time being and if it turns out we do have to do something we'll know soonish and mobilise via the AOPA mailing list/2p2/twitter/facebook/etc to ensure everyone knows what needs to happen)

I'm currently playing on UPoker (a PPPoker clone.) As a matter of interest, could agents for these sites potentially be prosecuted for promoting online poker in Australia?

Both yourself and Joey using language like this is quite exciting I must say. Never been in politics, nor passed law, but getting major things done in major corporations is somehting I have done and it sounds the same. if the language shows some of this confidence then it must be a decent of the way there. no promises yet, i know, but exciting nonetheless.

Yes, that is a possibility. It would not be recommended to host a PPP club while physically in Australia or holding Australian assets or ever intending to visit Australia under the law - if it's all offshore it's as unenforceable as Ignition etc.

As a player you're not breaking any laws but the operators are (see the Luke Brabin/Poker Asia Pacific case - just because it's a private club if it's rake/real money it's still operating an online poker site in Australia)

Hopefully that stupid law disappears soon and sites can get licensed in Australia. We will know more soon, I don't know any more than the last time I posted and we won't know more until Joey has met with the minister to determine whether the government is going to pass this regardless or whether we need to lobby them in some way shape or form if the major parties that have a vested interest in this legislation want us to.

Thanks Swoop - I'm not referring to the people running the clubs though, just the 'intermediaries' (several in my local casino) who can sign people up for PPP or UPoker and who collect part of their rake for their efforts. Do you think they could potentially ever be prosecuted, being relatively small fish?

I'm no lawyer but it would seem unlikely given they aren't the people offering the service? Just directing traffic to is like an employee would. But who knows.

If they're receiving a percentage of rake that could be construed as offering a gambling service without a license, but i'm not a lawyer.

If they're employees receiving a wage as an employee that'd be fine I assume

Not a gambling lawyer obviously consult an actual lawyer

not convinced how much of a demand there would be in Australia for non segregated poker. I know Asia Pacific didnt take off, but they didnt advertise it all. The other night there was an mtt with 50k prizepool on the app. Competition in the form of legal poker would be nice though, rake is way out of line once you reach the lower midstakes on the apps.

^^

Heaps bruh, aussies like a gambol

What is the rake btw at 3/6 and 5/10?

There were plenty of Australians playing on Stars and the other major sites when it was legal and Australia has one of the highest rec-with-disposable-income to reg ratios of any country. We're a very desirable market for sites with a global player pool due to Australians loving to gamble/high rec to reg ratio. If sites like Stars/Party were allowed to advertise here legally/sponsor NRL and AFL teams/partner properly with pub poker ventures and run satellites to the live scene at Crown/Star/etc we're a very lucrative market, our 25 million populations probably worth a lot more than that in raw numbers due to Australia's high income/gambling culture/lack of grinders relative to number of recs - there are probably only 100 or so poker pros in Australia and of those only a dozen or so are making six figures.

The population of Australia alone is roughly similar to the population of New Jersey, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island combined, so it is probably sustainable as a segregated market anyway.

Sustainable yes but far from ideal especially for the MTT community due to the limited traffic - France and Italy have had issues with traffic and our population is about half of one of those countries. An Australian only site could run and be profitable, it would just have smaller MTT fields and less options for cash games than the global pool.

Cash games would be ridiculously soft though (the 400NL game that ran most nights on Poker Asia Pacific was softer than 10NL on stars)

To be clear no one has proposed a segregated player pool, we all specifically explained to the Senate committee during the hearings why it was a bad idea and they understood that the UK has the 'best' legislation for online gambling and we'd be looking to follow their model and draft similar legislation if they legalise and regulate online poker in Australia.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe any legislation would be anything other than all of the global sites being allowed to apply for a gambling license through one of the states licensing bodies to offer online poker. Most sports books anyway seem to operate out of the Northern Territory due to its favourable laws for gambling companies. Obviously there would be specifics with regards to advertising rules/taxes/player protections etc included as well, but there's no point speculating on that until we know whether the legislation is going to be a priority for the government. If it is, we'll quickly know the language of the legislation and whether it'll be a standalone bill or quietly attached to an unrelated must pass bill (the latter being preferable and I believe the outcome Joey is shooting for at the moment although he can speak for himself after he's met with the minister and we'll know for sure)

I guess non-segregated is better as far as MTTs go but thoaw . There's only 1 or 2 MTTs a day on Australian based apps at the moment. (but they do generally get 5k+ prizepools). I would argue segregated is far better for Australian cash game players. Why would we want to take our rec heavy ecosystem and merge it with the world's reg heavy ecosystem. Makes literally no sense.

so you want to bumhunt "aus only" recs? how is that enjoyable for you or the ecosystem anyways? soon enough the recs will feel like they cant win and go back to playing their pub poker where they can actualy win hands with J5o. cause their grandson is named Jack and hes five or something like that.

For players, the simplest, quickest and easiest option is to amended the IGA to specifically make online poker sites an exempt service. The IGA already has provisions for this, it should be a relatively simple amendment. This is the absolute best possible outcome for players. It allows the maximum number of sites to offer poker to Australians immediately, without the hassle of understanding Australian legislation and applying for a gaming licence. This means Ignition + ACR will continue to be available, plus we'll get Stars, Party, 888 back and also operators like BetOnline etc.

If legislation requires poker sites to have a licence, this will be time consuming and will lead to fewer options for players as lots of the smaller sites can't afford to comply with the costs of obtaining a licence or paying consumption tax to states. Translation: the ACRs, Ignitions, BOLs of the world won't be available. This has already happened in regulated states in the US and in the UK.

I'd guess that the overall net benefit to state coffers will be pretty low compared to other types of wagering, while the cost of a licencing scheme and compliance for operators will be pretty high compared to the revenue generated. So why bother with a licencing process at all? We should be aiming for a blanket exemption for online poker being added to the IGA.

I mean, we've already got ignition, etc. If the government turns around and legislates taxable poker, what's to stop them still offering their services without a license anyway? They already do it atm

Edit: Though I'll point out that i do agree with you and that would be the best result, though I can't see that happening

Nothing would stop them since its unenforceable for companies without Australian assets; but the market share would get taken by the sites allowed to legally operate/advertise in Australia; if Stars 888 Party etc can run TV ads and sponsor football teams they'll get the market share (well the rec players at least which is the players the sites want most and obv the regs will go wherever their money is safest and games are softest/widest range available which is the big sites)

We'll know soon enough when Joey's met with the minister what the government's plan is; and we can figure out what we want and how to proceed from there. If it's support the government's plan, excellent, we just stay out of it. If it's modify their plan, then we apply pressure to them on the most important point/s. If they don't have a plan, then we need to get it on their agenda. Hopefully it's the first option and the legislation they have planned fits our needs. We'll know soon enough one way or the other.

lol pokerstars might not be around for much longer. $4200 overlay in a mirco millions mtt, 50k super tuesday now. GG.

and yet $33 bounty builders are getting $50k+ prizepools....

Couple of reason why....;1) hottest day ever in most european countries people may not want to play in the heat 2) not a reason but stars makes mass amounts on other tournys i think they will be fine!

As long as there is degens there will be PS (degen gotta degen)

maybe stars needs to get rid of normal mtts and start running more bounty mtts since they are in demand now. gg normal mtts. time australia gets online it will all be bountys.

cash is dead. gto bots at 2nl. might have to add bounty's in cash games. gg zoom and regular cash.

Look at any table currently running on Australian based clubs on PPPoker at the moment. At least half the players are recfish/very weak regulars. Because it's so easy to make money in this country outside of poker no-one really bothered to get good at poker. It's obviously much better for any Australian to be playing against other Australians recs instead of 5 pros. We have 1kPL5O games softer than STARS $10PL5O

Consider hypothetical "susie." Shes one of the best players at her local pub. On a segregated platform she could jump on and maybe even breakeven at 60-200NL. Guess what on pokerstars she wouldn't beat 2NL. And to what end? so the 30 slightly plus EV MTT grinders in Australia can eek out a McDonalds wage? They can already do that on ACR/Ignition

Careful berry1, making sense like that is frowned upon.