Assume you mean what are the chances? It's impossible to say, of course. There are always going to be far more people who avoid attracting the ATO's attention than those who do. So as a pure question of probability you are probably ok. As a general proposition, the better you do, the more "big" things you do with your money (buy a house, buy a car, buy shares, move a lot of money between bank accounts), the greater the disconnect between your lifestyle and your taxable income, etc etc the more likely you are to come to their attention. But you never know what it is that may cause them to look at you.

On the one hand, the best thing you could do is keep detailed records so that if you are found to be conducting a business, you can at least claim all deductions owing to you. Then again, keeping detailed records is more likely to make them characterise you as a business!

It's hard to be beat the tax office in the long run...

how about private ruling 91541

http://ato.gov.au/rba/content/?ffi=/...tent/91541.htm

Your activity is not very sophisticated. You do not have an office, employ staff or maintain a website. The computer software you use does not minimise the element of chance or give you a special advantage over your fellow players.

Although you derive relatively significant income from your gambling activities, this factor in itself does not indicate that you are conducting a business.

You do not derive earnings from any associated industry activities.

Your gambling involves playing a gaming activity. By the application of skill, you may have reduced your chances of a loss, however your overall gains are largely dependent on chance rather than skill.

The mere playing of such an activity is ordinarily thought of as a hobby or pastime rather than engaging in a business.

We agree with the argument that you have put forward and have determined that you do not carry on a business of gambling. We have based our decision on the indicators in IT 2655.

The winnings you receive in relation to this activity are not assessable under section 6-5 or section 6-10 of the ITAA 1997.

The expenses related to your gambling activities are not deductible under section 8-1 of the ITAA 1997.

He did quote a portion of it. The aspect of the ruling (which isn't binding by the way but just a guide) that he did choose to elaborate on is the part I highlighted above.

Basically, whether playing poker and the income you generate is your primary source of income. If it is, you may be deemed to be conducting a business and can therefore be taxed.

....which is pretty much what I suggested half way through this thread before getting told to GTFO cos I don't know what I'm talking about and I'm not Australian

I didn't know what I was talking about really, just using basic logic. It's inconceivable any tax office just isn't interested in collecting tax on revenue gained by its citizens. Especially when it's a main or only source of income.

There's no reason why {significant} poker income should be exempt from tax. And the attitude of some pro poker players who somehow think it should be is a damning blow to the wider poker players pools credibility

This isn't a thread about taxes let's stop the derail while we still can.

I think we need Stars/Lee Jones to comment on what strategy they think would be best at the time being, one of contacting senators/key MPs to educate them on the issue and get the on side or one of silence until such a point that a bill is proposed that would force the major sites out of the market and not provide any alternative for Australians to play online poker. Let's face it, most of us mostly play on Stars, and keeping them in the market is the biggest concern since they are the industry leader. I know they've said they have no plans to exit the market I just feel like with no leader for our 'movement' to keep online poker legal, Stars are our leaders by default here on strategy, or at least they should be since they have the most to lose.

Yep, same as the resident pros should be leading the fight back from the players POV as they also have the most to lose

Good work with this Swoop... and fair call on the derail. It is just something to keep in mind though, both as awareness how players/pros are perceived and also as a potential bargaining chip? (assuming thats realistic)

Gl all

Ignore that link to the adverse ruling. This ruling was withdrawn on appeal. I happen to know because I was the facilitator.

For privacy reasons I will not go into the details but suffice it to say the reasoning from the ATO was poorly thought through and poorly researched.

The Melbourne branch of the ATO accepted the arguments contained in the objection in full.

Cheers


Bruce

Derailed thread and this is so ******ed. And for the sake of humanity you should remove yourself from the gene pool...

Spewtard is a good handle for you.

Instead of "go kill yourself" ....Perhaps you could elaborate on your views, so we can see exactly how self orientated and out of touch with reality you are after so long grinding micro MTTs

Spewtard's one of the best MTT players in Australia and more importantly this thread is not about taxes, the ATO has made it's position clear and the amount of money it would cost to audit/collect from the very small amount of poker pros in Australia would barely be worth their time, if there is a ruling that poker players income is taxable so be it but this issue will not live or die on player generated tax revenue, licensing fees for operators and operator taxes will dwarf any revenue from players regardless if we're using tax revenue as an argument.

Sure... like I said I think the issue is relevant but I agree the focus should be in the central issue.

Was happy to leave it at that, but it appears "one of the best MTTs in Australia" is also an immature paranoid little twerp :|

**** me, no it's not. You have 20 posts of conjecture and drivel in here. Do you actually sit and read other peoples responses? I honestly have no idea why you persist to post. You have no relevant information, the issue doesn't affect you and all you do is derail the thread.


And this is why I love Bruce.

# Sorry didn't realize NVG cyberspace was so precious

# our countries are not so different. The same legislation could easily occur here. I can move there whenever I like. Have good friends who play on Oz etc

# I'm Giving you the viewpoint on the issue from joe blow and potential rubber stampers, if you can't see how the issue is at least slightly relevant to public perception of poker players that's your problem. Gl to u

Comment by the sites may or may not help but there is no trigger point to leap into action of a new bill. The act exists, enforcement of an existing law does not require new legislation as Black Friday shows.

Online poker is not legal in Aus. You can't keep it legal, you can cross your fingers and hope that suppliers still serve the market but this is by no means sure.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/...bbott-minitry/

Other positions include Joe Hockey as treasurer, Malcolm Turnbull as communications minister, Peter Dutton as health minister, Christopher Pyne as education minister, Scott Morrison as minister for immigration and border protection, and Greg Hunt as environment minister.


department of broadband communications and the digital economy

So Malcolm Turnbull being appointed communications minister was a surprise to you?

Lol^

I was just letting people know he's the person you should be contacting from now on, since his department is where Online poker falls under

I'm sure everyone on this thread will appreciate all your hard work and the time that it will save them looking up this information.

wow. What is wrong with all of you? What was wrong with him posting that?

ITT Ive seen someone get abused my "one of Australias best MTT'ers" for daring to suggest Australia offers great employment opportunites outside of poker. The same guy told me to kill myself for trying to present a laymans angle (sorry u hurting dude, too much make up?)

Meanwhile all you keyboard heros are doing precisely nothing to help yourselfs. A few notables like Swoop are making efforts, but the rest just climbing into anyone posting something they dont like.

You should be ashamed of yourselves. Are poker pros/wanna be pros really this shallow and self orientated? Because thats how you are acting. Disgusting really. Im done with this thread

# still hope poker isnt banned in Australia, but some of you need a reality check

Because unless you are a kiwi (who really shouldn't be dabbling in this thread anyway) it is common knowledge that Turnbull will be communications minister as that has been his portfolio in opposition for the last 3 years.

Stop engaging this guy ffs.

If you haven't already you should be taking out your money on online sites, especially if you play on something other than stars and full tilt poker

Also i dont think you want your money to be stuck online for a few months even if on stars

hey swoopAE I signed the facebook petition mate, I learnt to play poker at an apl venue here in rural nsw, unfortunalety home games are not very frequent here the thought of going back to apl is sickening

I don't know how much of this is real or just scaremongering, but are we silly if we don't withdraw our money ASAP? How long before the new government actually acts on this issue?