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Old 09-09-2013, 08:25 AM   #276
blocka
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Originally Posted by OlyBrah View Post
Fair treatment for road users.
I voted for this party myself (being a motoring enthusiast). If you have an old school car that's modified, or a newer car that's modified, OR a vehicle that is considered to be a sports vehicle, you may find yourself getting treated poorly by the police on the roads.

My boss used to own a Corvette himself, and would get pulled over by VicPol every time he took it out (only drove it on the weekends) without fail. That was 10 years ago, not much has changed now. These days there's more and more car meets (done legally) that are targeted by police. A Downshift meet (held in Queensland at a fairgrounds that was hired) was recently targeted by the police, with defect stations set up outside the venue. Video linked below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZfun86c8o

What can be seen there in a few frames of footage are "every day normal cars" getting rolled through the defect stations, while vehicles that people care for are pulled over, targeted, slapped with defects and fines, and sent on their way.
Many car enthusiasts over the years have been defected for ridiculous reasons. One notorious police officer has previously popped the bonnet of many cars, shaken the battery around until it wobbles, then slapped the vehicle with a defect notice for having a "loose battery".

On top of this, AMEP also wants to fight draconian anti-hoon laws. They are anti-hooning, but they don't believe impounding a car is going to stop people from doing illegal acts on the roads. If you've spent a little bit of time hanging outside in a poor-ish suburb between 11:00pm and 3:00am, you'd notice that there are still many people doing burnouts despite the presence of tough hoon laws. If the hoon laws worked people wouldn't do burnouts, but that isn't the case.

What AMEP fights for is something I could seriously rave on for for hours. To sum it up though, AMEP fights for...

- Equality amongst all motor users.
- Less red tape regarding vehicle modifications.
- Less police presence in sanctioned events where no laws are broken.
- Less support regarding nanny-state laws.

Would the lesser support for nanny-state laws include one regarding online poker? To be honest, I have no clue at all. I bet you could get a question answered by asking on their facebook page though, which they are actively using.
it could be worse
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:28 AM   #277
MichaelScarn
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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something seriously needs to be fixed with senate voting imo. How can morons like Ricky Muir and Hussain Sheiknad 1 thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy and the other whats to change australian law into islam law.
Who the hell is Hussain Sheiknad??? And Ricky Muir could wind up being a dead-set hero for us.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:29 AM   #278
OzPoker3DomFighter
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Hello TwoPlusTwo YOU WANT TO READ THIS, Specifically Australian poker players, its been a long time, firstly i in no way consider myself a smart person, and would like YOUR HELP in doing something about this news. I will try my best in finding out who we need to contact but i also need YOUR HELP.

I was made aware of disturbing news a few days ago, my initial reactions were... I can't believe what i just read, and i must do something about it because i know nobody else would.

So if you are Australian and care about being able to play Online poker your first step should be to write letters, call, contact, email every politician about how you don't want the Liberals to take away Online Poker.

Poker players are generally very lazy, but put it this way is spending a few moments of your day emailing, calling, lettering, faxing someone worth keeping the luxury of being able to play poker online???

We should not have the mentality of "Oh its not gonna happen" we should have the mentality of "Prevention is better than cure"

Before you send a angry letter or cuss them out you need to know what you are talking about, and state your argument clearly. Last year i wrote a submission when they were making a review of the IGA


I targeted that the whole purpose of IGA and Internet Poker was to help problem gamblers, underage gamblers, and money laundering. My argument was that if Online Poker was legal it would be much more easier to regulate, help problem gamblers and money laundering.

How would it be easier?

If there Online Poker was legal, and under regulation, the government could stop problem gamblers by putting them on a blacklist. And that problem gamblers would be worse off in an unregulated illegal online market because;

1. Problem gamblers are always going to gamble

2. Since they can't play Online poker anymore (where you can risk as low as 2cents) They're going to go to the brick and mortar casinos (where there is a risk of losing even more money because casinos don't have games that charge as low as 2cents)

3. The government can't stop internet sites in the short-term, new ones will open up, players will deposit on these sites, because respected sites like Pokerstars are ousted from Australia, some will either go bankrupt before the Australian government find out, and players might be victims losing deposited money to offshore scammers.

Companies like pokerstars, should not be taken out to protect consumers --- which under the the ACMA compliance, enforcement and obligation to Australians is broken (Shown Below) 1.community interests are met 2.consumers are protected 3.industry growth is encouraged(Not sure about this one)

4. Some Online Poker players are professionals, who earn their living, support their family, children, with the money they earn, and they pay tax. However if they lose the ability to play poker, the government has not foreseen how this would affect this majority of Australians.

They would lose their Jobs, their money that they have on the site, (If its not on a respectable site then maybe never see this money again)

They would then need to go on centrelink, increasing unemployment, because poker players are generally not good at anything else.

Also some Australians would need to relocate, the Americans after blackfriday as an example, not only would the government lose tax revenue they would see Australians spending money aboard rather than in Australia which is not good for the economy

5. I stated and compared the law to other countries such as England where it was legal, and how America was in the process and has already legalised about 3 states.

6. Government would benefit from taxing Online poker rather than making it illegal, and losing all revenue from Poker sites that will pop up and likely scam Australians

7. Why is Online Sports Betting, not regarding as gambling, and Online Poker is? If online sports betting is allowed, Online Poker should be allowed, the law contradicts itself.

8. Australians have the right to gamble with their money, therefore should have the right to gamble online, A few bad apples should not spoil it for other Australians who view Poker as recreation or a Job. "If someone drinks and drives and kills someone else driving a car, should it be made illegal to drive for all Australians?"

9. This is a stretch, but i tried arguing that poker was a game of skill, i even tried, contacting the Australian Sport Committee to get poker get recognised as a game of skill not luck (the lady basically laughed in my face and didn't even say goodbye while hanging up)

10. I already mentioned blacklist for problem gamblers blocking them from playing, but i forgot to mention a very good point brought up by the Pokers Players Alliance, it was that, while playing on the internet if regulated, Poker sites could create a POP UP message informing about how much was lost, unlike brick and mortar casinos where there is no sunlight, and no clock, Internet Poker provides better protection

11. To address money laundering, if made legal, Online poker will be regulated, regulations should include a 3rd party that makes sure online poker sites protects Australians, and no money laundering occers, a body like ASIC. Same can be said about underage gamblers, regulation helps prevent this. None of this can happen without a regulated market


Fell free to use my arguments in your letter, email, or phone call.


Please add more if you think of any, this was a summary of my letter to everybody, Rudd, Gillard, Tony Abbot, I went through every Australian Politician when the IGA went up for review luckily they heard our side that day.

WHO TO CONTACT = EVERYBODY STARTING WITH THE REPRESENTATIVE FOR YOUR AREA TO TONY ABBOT

http://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_M...=-1&gen=0&ps=0

I went through the entire list, and wrote a hard copy letter to each one, and rang about a 3rd of them, and emailed them all. BECAUSE I ENJOY AND SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO PLAY POKER IN AUSTRALIA JUST LIKE YOU DO

Also

After doing a bit of research ive come across The Australian Communications And Media Authority OR the ACMA. And that the people to talk too are the "Officers of the Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy"

They are Australias regulator for the internet, their compliance and enforcement is:

The Australian media and communications landscape is diverse and complex. Obligations are placed on industry to ensure that:

1.community interests are met
2.consumers are protected
3.industry growth is encouraged


Contact them here:

Australian Communications and Media Authority
PO Box Q500 Queen Victoria Building NSW 1230
TEL: (02) 9334 7700
FAX: (02) 9334 7799
gambling@acma.gov.au

Heres the link: http://acma.gov.au/Industry/Internet...ernet-gambling







If OP reads this or if there is a moderator, please include the contact details to the OP

If you have anything to add please do so

I would also like to request permission to start a new thread with my response as OP, because i think it would be better for all Australians.

Last edited by OzPoker3DomFighter; 09-09-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #279
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
I would also like to request permission to start a new thread with my response as OP, because i think it would be better for all Australians.
Those more interested in legislation and campaigning than gossip tend to hang out in the Legislation forum here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...ought-you-ppa/

I'd suggest a campaign launch OP thread there from you would be better than one here.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:22 PM   #280
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

:/

Spoiler:
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:57 PM   #281
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Before you send a angry letter or cuss them out you need to know what you are talking about, and state your argument clearly. Last year i wrote a submission when they were making a review of the IGA
Oddly what I was left thinking after reading that was I have never heard that phrase used in Aus. Ever.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:40 PM   #282
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"Poker players are generally not good at anything else"


I loled
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:41 PM   #283
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

we don't have to pay tax afaik
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:51 PM   #284
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

We don't pay tax on poker winnings, that's why the "the gov will lose tax revenue" case doesn't hold.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:59 PM   #285
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

That letter could use some polish - there's some spurious arguments as well some valid points there. Bit risky though, drawing attention to it....
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:06 PM   #286
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I'd be surprised if you don't have to pay tax when poker is your primary (or especially) only source of income.

That's the rule here in NZ. It's just not enforced because the IRD has bigger things to worry about. Why should some grinder not working but making 80k/whatever a year pay no tax anyway ...
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:09 PM   #287
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Perhaps any approach to lawmakers should include suggestions to pay income tax like everyone else. If you want to be taken seriously that is.

LOL I PAY NO TAX esq attitudes hardly help public perception of poker players
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:52 PM   #288
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

well said, OzPoker3DomFighter ,

if 888poker had of escalated the exchange issue thats still offensive to most AUSTRALIANS [4% deposits and 8% withdrawals]

maybe MY IRRITATING complaints to ALL COALITION MPs , the complaint to the ACC ,
will keep this issue fresh in the decision makers minds
why can an "offshore company LIKE 888POKER trade in australia WHEN they PAY NO TAX and ENFORCE a 4% premium on deposits from oz depositors, who are blissfully unawares of the "in the know third party offers

i vote to KEEP the shamsters from stealing our hard earned
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:04 PM   #289
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Originally Posted by OzPoker3DomFighter View Post
I would also like to request permission to start a new thread with my response as OP, because i think it would be better for all Australians.
If you do end up starting a new thread, please don't do so until you learn how to avoid bolding half your words - your post makes one's eyes bleed.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:10 PM   #290
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

I make 300k+ a year from poker


I've been to a accountant and they have researched the law, YOU DON'T have to pay tax on poker winnings in Australia, online poker is not regarded as a game of skill it comes under the same Category as casino games like blackjack, slots etc..

Now if you we're say a pro gambler and bet on horse racing and sports bets etc and that was ur main income it is classed a skill and you have to pay tax.

That's the grey area in our law, she also told me about a law case some aussie guy won like 7mill from online gambling (not sure if it was online poker) or remember what year it was, but didn't have to pay one cent of tax on it.

Last edited by jakedamus; 09-09-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:29 PM   #291
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Awesome tx for that. I'm not suggesting you should pay if you don't have to as the law stands.

How do think layman feel about you making all that money and not paying tax though
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:32 PM   #292
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

jakedamus i have been told the same, however he also stated that pro punters can get away with no having to pay tax either if they use tab outlets with cash rather then using a online bookmaker or online tab accounts which pay company tax to the ATO.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:32 PM   #293
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Awesome tx for that. I'm not suggesting you should pay if you don't have to as the law stands.

How do think layman feel about you making all that money and not paying tax though
Do you pay tax above what the law requires? How do you think the layman feels about you not offering to pay extra tax you don't have to?
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:34 PM   #294
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Originally Posted by bumpnrun View Post
I'd be surprised if you don't have to pay tax when poker is your primary (or especially) only source of income.

That's the rule here in NZ. It's just not enforced because the IRD has bigger things to worry about. Why should some grinder not working but making 80k/whatever a year pay no tax anyway ...
prepare to be surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedamus View Post
I make 300k+ a year from poker


I've been to a accountant and they have researched the law, YOU DON'T have to pay tax on poker winnings in Australia, online poker is not regarded as a game of skill it comes under the same Category as casino games like blackjack, slots etc..

Now if you we're say a pro gambler and bet on horse racing and sports bets etc and that was ur main income it is classed a skill and you have to pay tax.

That's the grey area in our law, she also told me about a law case some aussie guy won like 7mill from online gambling (not sure if it was online poker) or remember what year it was, but didn't have to pay one cent of tax on it.
+1 (except the 300k part.. fu)

good article about poker and tax in Australia for those who are unsure.

http://www.ashtoncartwright.com/is-p...-in-australia/

Last edited by pontylad; 09-09-2013 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:13 PM   #295
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Do you pay tax above what the law requires? How do you think the layman feels about you not offering to pay extra tax you don't have to?
The layman would feel fine about it obviously. As I already pay 20-30% income tax.

However the same layman will not feel fine with a 300k pa poker player paying zero tax. Do you see the difference or do I need to expand further on how stupid your post is
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #296
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prepare to be surprised.



+1 (except the 300k part.. fu)

good article about poker and tax in Australia for those who are unsure.

http://www.ashtoncartwright.com/is-p...-in-australia/
There's a lot of disclaimers in that article about the author having no qualifications or experience, while including a picture of him sporting bright orange and purple hair :lol:
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #297
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Just like the average layman is revolting over lottery winners not paying tax. Please enlighten me further with your genius.

Edit: Put another way, tell the average layman that you want them to pay tax on their lottery / lotto / TAB winnings and see how popular your stance becomes. Or do I have to spell out how stupid your position is?
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:24 PM   #298
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
If you do end up starting a new thread, please don't do so until you learn how to avoid bolding half your words - your post makes one's eyes bleed.
+1 Didn't make it past the first paragraph.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:40 PM   #299
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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There's a lot of disclaimers in that article about the author having no qualifications or experience, while including a picture of him sporting bright orange and purple hair :lol:
You mean the one disclaimer, the part where he says he previously worked for the ATO but doesn't any more? so on the one hand we have a guy that used to work in the Australian Tax office and on the other side we have you, a guy who's expertise in Australian poker tax laws is that he lives in New Zealand?

That and the fact he's posted links to the relevant private rulings and judgements (even if he was lying about working at the ATO then it doesn't matter since he's still referenced the correct legal documents to understand the ambiguity) which even a monkey could follow if you took the time to stop posting and read them. Furthermore the other fact that people in the thread have already said that they have taken legal/tax advice about this subject within Australia

You know absolutely nothing about the subject so your opinion is fairly worthless. But yeah, please post more of your opinions on the subject of why we as poker players should pay tax etc... it's definitely relevant to this thread.

Lets end the debate on whether Australians need to pay tax on poker under the current system since they don't and it's just a derail. And lets not also derail with ethics of whether poker players should pay tax or not... it has no reason being in this thread.

Last edited by pontylad; 09-09-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:43 PM   #300
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakedamus View Post
I make 300k+ a year from poker


I've been to a accountant and they have researched the law, YOU DON'T have to pay tax on poker winnings in Australia, online poker is not regarded as a game of skill it comes under the same Category as casino games like blackjack, slots etc..

Now if you we're say a pro gambler and bet on horse racing and sports bets etc and that was ur main income it is classed a skill and you have to pay tax.

That's the grey area in our law, she also told me about a law case some aussie guy won like 7mill from online gambling (not sure if it was online poker) or remember what year it was, but didn't have to pay one cent of tax on it.
Could you please PM me details of your accountant and whether or not you bothered to get a private ruling? Last year I saw an accountant who advised i did need to pay tax
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