Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker

07-11-2017 , 07:09 AM
submission uploaded
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Imp
Better not doing it at all than paying someone to do it for you (in my opinion).

It takes 10 mins to write a few sentences saying why you like poker, not every submission has to be an essay.
i agree. lets take this matter seriously.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blissy6969
submission uploaded
awesome stuff
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 07:52 AM
Obviously getting someone to write it for you and passing off as your own work is unacceptable. If we don't care enough to write a few lines to defend our game why should the government care enough to keep it.

In the final 10 days guys. Still so many that don't know. Jump on your FB messenger as soon as you read this and send the first three poker players you see the link to the AOPA website and a link to the inquiry. Ask them WHEN they are writing a submission.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 09:13 AM
Just submitted mine (about 3.5 pages long).
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 09:19 AM
I agree with all the comments about it being the wrong thing to do getting someone else to draft your submission but I will say it's pretty baller throwing $100 to do so.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 09:48 AM
It's not baller it's straight out lazy imo and using the excuse i dont have enough time is bs aswell. Anyone could do it within 10 minutes I'm sure he comes on 2p2 and lurks around for at least 10 minutes. Just shows how much some people actually give a fk and are willing to sit back and let others do all the work when this matter involves everyone that is up to date with this matter.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wednesdayroast
Just submitted mine (about 3.5 pages long).
Great work.

Keep it going guys. We are down to a single digit number of days!
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 11:01 PM
Lots of friendly Aussies at the table today. A few had already made their submissions and others were going to write one today. 1 guy refused to though unfortunately because "STARS IS RIGGED!"
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-11-2017 , 11:35 PM
politics are just the worst. i hope you guys win and they listen!
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambee
Lots of friendly Aussies at the table today. A few had already made their submissions and others were going to write one today. 1 guy refused to though unfortunately because "STARS IS RIGGED!"
that's unaustralian
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 01:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambee
Lots of friendly Aussies at the table today. A few had already made their submissions and others were going to write one today. 1 guy refused to though unfortunately because "STARS IS RIGGED!"
A couple of days ago, I was asking the Australian players at my tables if they knew about the situation (I was playing the micros). One of the guys said they were aware, so I asked if he had made a submission. Guess what he said. "Nah I couldn't be bothered, mate". It was disappointing and slightly tilting. And to top it off, this ar**hole Colombian idiot told me to shut up in Spanish. It tilted me a lot. I wasn't even talking to him and he tells me to shut up in his native language. He didn't even have the balls to say it in English. F*****g Coward. Sorry, rant over.

On the plus side, another person I asked said they made a submission, and another said he didn't know who to make one to, so I pointed him in the right direction. He said "thanks", so I'm hoping he goes ahead and makes a submission. The more submissions we get, the better.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambee
Lots of friendly Aussies at the table today. A few had already made their submissions and others were going to write one today. "
Great work champ.

Hopefully we get a good number of submissions. We still need more though so please keep doing this right to the end!
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylarker

On the plus side, another person I asked said they made a submission, and another said he didn't know who to make one to, so I pointed him in the right direction. He said "thanks", so I'm hoping he goes ahead and makes a submission. The more submissions we get, the better.
Thanks for doing this. Please keep on doing it! Spread the word!
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 02:21 AM
No probs Joey! Stars need to send out that email already! It's going to help a lot.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 03:13 AM
I'll upload my submission after re-checking it sometime tonight:

My name is James, I am 28 years old and currently live in Brisbane. I was first introduced to online poker through a friend while studying at university in Sydney in 2007. Since this time I have participated in online games regularly. I believe my personal experience over the last 10 years has given me insight into this industry that I hope will be valuable to this inquiry.

I would firstly like to give a personal account what drew me to the game in the first place to highlight some of the reasons players are attracted to online poker and pursue it as a hobby. I have always enjoyed playing multiplayer games as a hobby ever since I was a child, whether it be board games, cards or console games with friends and family. I find the social elements as well as the skill, competitive aspect and the ability to learn and improve particularly satisfying. When I was introduced to online poker I quickly realised poker was perhaps the perfect card game for me, involving elements of probability, psychology and skill. The last point, skill, was an extremely important factor that spurred me on to learn the game. Shortly after learning how to play the game I was quickly able to see how mathematics, problem solving and logic could be applied to poker and help me improve and allow me to become a better player. I began participating in online poker forums and skype groups where players from across the world with a shared love of the game would discuss strategy and how to become better players. This is particularly important, for me playing poker was never about just gambling though it is in part by definition a gambling game. Through my interactions on the virtual tables and forums, my interest in related mathematic fields was sparked. I studied various elements of probability, game theory and obtained numerous books on related fields to hone my skills. I was even able to apply maths and programming skills gained in my university courses to undertake poker research projects and then see their application while playing, a fascinating experience to see such a direct application of theory in real time. It would be fair to characterise much of my early poker experience as academic in nature.

During the process of learning poker I was able to gamble responsibly due to the nature of online poker specifically. I played online at micro stakes, allowing me to play for sums insignificant to me monetarily while still enjoying and learning the game. This is a huge benefit of online poker as compared to playing in a casino. For many players, the micro stakes offered online, where players can buy-in to a game for a couple of cents, are far more appealing than going to play at a casino where the lowest buy-ins offered are much higher, for example at my local casino in Brisbane the minimum buy-in is $100. Online poker also offers the benefit of allowing people to play the game from their own homes without having to travel to and spend large amounts of time in casinos. Most Australians don’t have access to a local casino and others simply don’t enjoy the environment and prefer not to spend a lot of time in them but still wish to pursue poker as a hobby. Another factor that allowed me to gamble responsibly was the use of a mathematical concept known as bankroll management, whereby a player only risks a small fraction of his poker bankroll (money allocated for poker) at any one time and adjusts the stakes he plays according to a set percentage of their bankroll, thus largely eliminating the chance of losing their entire bankroll. Online poker also has the added benefit of being able to easily check your wins and losses history through the sites, allowing players to easily keep a realistic notion of their results.

One large benefit online poker has provided me with is interaction with the online poker community and the resulting formation of friendships. Through discussions on poker forums and skype study groups I have interacted with a variety of unique individuals from around the world, many of which I have become close friends with. The network of poker friends I have made in Canada has actually allowed me to travel and live there for extended periods, an unforgettable experience that would not have been possible without this participation. My personal experience with online poker players that I’ve met both online and in real life has been overwhelmingly positive, they are a diverse and interesting group of people with lives and interests outside of poker.

Pursuing poker as a hobby has provided me with additional benefits, particularly skills applicable to real life. Learning to think about situations in a probabilistic sense has taught me to better analyse risk in a variety of situations, whether they be financial or behavioural. Some form of risk is encompassed in nearly every activity or decision a person undertakes so having such a skill is invaluable. As a result I have become a better decision maker and a more responsible gambler. Through playing and learning a skillful game such as poker it has become easier to identify high risk and deceptive forms of gambling and make responsible and informed decisions regarding them.

Over the course of my time playing poker I have developed my skills to the point where I have been an overall net winner. The extra money I have made from poker has helped fund other hobbies of mine including travel, scuba diving, skiing, books, collecting records, guitar and cooking.

Aside from my own personal experiences I would like to bring your attention the government’s own Review of the Interactive Gambling Act, Final Report 2012 which outlines key differences between online poker and other forms of online gambling. In the report the “Productivity Commission stressed the difference between online poker card playing and other forms of online gaming (for example online slot machines) noting that while all types of gambling carry some degree of risk, online poker card playing involves relatively lesser risk because:
• it has a different character to EGMs
• it is partly a game of skill
• there is no evidence players experience the trance like states (at least to the same degree) that occur when playing EGMs
• there is a social dimension in that you are playing against other people so it is very interactive
• other online games can be played much more quickly and the stakeholder for other games is the casino
• the ground rules, with players competing for a pot of money to which they contribute, limit losses.”

The currently regulatory approach is neither a reasonable nor proportionate response to the harms and benefits of online poker. With the introduction of recently amended Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (IGA) it will be illegal for online poker to be offered to Australians. This is extremely disappointing as while the legislation was not introduced to prohibit poker specifically, the wording of the bill technically includes poker and thus will result in its illegality. This is a most unfortunate byproduct of the legislation, one that will affect thousands of Australians who currently enjoy online poker as a hobby. One of the qualities of poker that differentiates it from other card games is inclusion of rounds of betting. This is what makes poker unique, betting is an intrinsic part of the game, without betting between rounds the game of poker simply does not exist. The legislation is clearly inadequate in distinguishing between online poker and other types of online gambling. It should be clear to anyone with first-hand experience of online poker that it should not simply be lumped into an extremely broad category of ‘click to call’ in play betting services when online poker doesn’t at all resemble other forms of gambling included within this blanket definition.

The legislation is also inadequate in terms of preventing risk to online poker players as it will be ineffective and drive players to non-reputable sites that continue to offer services illegally to Australians. For those with knowledge of the online poker environment, there are reputable sites which have online gaming licenses in various countries around the world and also abide by each countries individual laws which they offer services to. However, there are also other offshore sites without licenses that continue to offer services illegally to anyone with access to a computer and the internet. It is highly preferable to use reputable sites as they segregate player funds, offer fair games and work within each country’s respective laws thus reducing risk to the players. If the legislation in its current form passes poker enthusiasts will be forced to use the sites that offer illegal services, while the reputable operators will withdraw from the Australian market. This would be the worst possible result, as players will be unprotected by the law and the safeguards the reputable sites provide.

In terms of addressing this issue I would like to see online poker regulated within Australia or exempted from the IGA. A regulated market would offer additional tax revenue for the Australian government, funds which could be used for gambling education, safeguards and harm minimisation allowing Australians to gamble responsibly, as is their right as adults. However, failing the viability of this option the best alternative would be to exempt online poker from IGA so that reputable sites can continue to offer services to Australians and prevent players being driven to unlawful offshore operators.

Over the past 10 years poker has become one of my favourite hobbies, it is simply a great game enjoyed by many people all over the world. Online poker provides an environment where players can gamble responsibly, interact with players from around the world and pursue an academic challenge while learning new skills in the process. Myself and thousands of other Australians are able to enjoy it responsibly with a much lower risk posed than other forms of online gambling and will be devastated if it becomes illegal to do so in Australia, simply due to inadequacies of the current regulatory framework. Australia is a democracy and as such the government has a responsibility to act on behalf of its citizens. This inquiry was brought about because regular Australians don’t want to see something they are passionate about disappear. I hope whoever reads this takes my own and other people’s experiences into consideration and can help keep the game I love stay within Australia.

References
Final Report 2012 Review of the Interactive Gambling Act 2001. Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy.
https://www.communications.gov.au/fi...token=F785mC4l
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 03:37 AM
Joey can you try and get stars to send out the emails asap, because I started from 1c/2c tables and opened every table every game that had a OZ player all the way up to $5 tables and most of them wont even reply when you ask them nicely.

I send them the details anyway but even the players that did reply I'd say 90% of players don't know about this issue.

A lot of player will be rec and they might not look at the email for 2/3 days which wont leave them much time to send in a submission.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 03:39 AM
Agreed this is absolutely disgraceful from Stars they they haven't sent an email yet it's potentially 3% of their revenue forever, surely they can send one email to a portion of their playerbase affected especially when they've known about it for weeks and the clock is running out

Great to see more submissions being posted in thread. Two of my friends sent me their submissions today privately. Let's keep them coming!

Last edited by SwoopAE; 07-12-2017 at 03:48 AM.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwoopAE
Agreed this is absolutely disgraceful from Stars they they haven't sent an email yet it's potentially 3% of their revenue forever, surely they can send one email to a portion of their playerbase affected especially when they've known about it for weeks and the clock is running out
100% agree. PokerStars, wake up and do something
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 08:34 AM
Hopefully won't be a case of too little too late but great effort by everyone who's taken the time to try make a change and Joey for leading the charge also swoop as well.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6V6GT
100% agree. PokerStars, wake up and do something
Everyone should be tweeting at Pokerstars to get the email out now not when it's too late to do anything for rec players. I'd consider tagging DN and other Stars pros in these too.
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-12-2017 , 06:40 PM
Stars just confirmed that something should go out tomorrow morning. Let me know ITT if/when you receive something.

Thanks team!
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-13-2017 , 03:04 AM
Nothing from stars yet
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-13-2017 , 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by prettyprettygoot
I'll upload my submission after re-checking it sometime tonight:

My name is James, I am 28 years old and currently live in Brisbane. I was first introduced to online poker through a friend while studying at university in Sydney in 2007. Since this time I have participated in online games regularly. I believe my personal experience over the last 10 years has given me insight into this industry that I hope will be valuable to this inquiry.

I would firstly like to give a personal account what drew me to the game in the first place to highlight some of the reasons players are attracted to online poker and pursue it as a hobby. I have always enjoyed playing multiplayer games as a hobby ever since I was a child, whether it be board games, cards or console games with friends and family. I find the social elements as well as the skill, competitive aspect and the ability to learn and improve particularly satisfying. When I was introduced to online poker I quickly realised poker was perhaps the perfect card game for me, involving elements of probability, psychology and skill. The last point, skill, was an extremely important factor that spurred me on to learn the game. Shortly after learning how to play the game I was quickly able to see how mathematics, problem solving and logic could be applied to poker and help me improve and allow me to become a better player. I began participating in online poker forums and skype groups where players from across the world with a shared love of the game would discuss strategy and how to become better players. This is particularly important, for me playing poker was never about just gambling though it is in part by definition a gambling game. Through my interactions on the virtual tables and forums, my interest in related mathematic fields was sparked. I studied various elements of probability, game theory and obtained numerous books on related fields to hone my skills. I was even able to apply maths and programming skills gained in my university courses to undertake poker research projects and then see their application while playing, a fascinating experience to see such a direct application of theory in real time. It would be fair to characterise much of my early poker experience as academic in nature.

During the process of learning poker I was able to gamble responsibly due to the nature of online poker specifically. I played online at micro stakes, allowing me to play for sums insignificant to me monetarily while still enjoying and learning the game. This is a huge benefit of online poker as compared to playing in a casino. For many players, the micro stakes offered online, where players can buy-in to a game for a couple of cents, are far more appealing than going to play at a casino where the lowest buy-ins offered are much higher, for example at my local casino in Brisbane the minimum buy-in is $100. Online poker also offers the benefit of allowing people to play the game from their own homes without having to travel to and spend large amounts of time in casinos. Most Australians don’t have access to a local casino and others simply don’t enjoy the environment and prefer not to spend a lot of time in them but still wish to pursue poker as a hobby. Another factor that allowed me to gamble responsibly was the use of a mathematical concept known as bankroll management, whereby a player only risks a small fraction of his poker bankroll (money allocated for poker) at any one time and adjusts the stakes he plays according to a set percentage of their bankroll, thus largely eliminating the chance of losing their entire bankroll. Online poker also has the added benefit of being able to easily check your wins and losses history through the sites, allowing players to easily keep a realistic notion of their results.

One large benefit online poker has provided me with is interaction with the online poker community and the resulting formation of friendships. Through discussions on poker forums and skype study groups I have interacted with a variety of unique individuals from around the world, many of which I have become close friends with. The network of poker friends I have made in Canada has actually allowed me to travel and live there for extended periods, an unforgettable experience that would not have been possible without this participation. My personal experience with online poker players that I’ve met both online and in real life has been overwhelmingly positive, they are a diverse and interesting group of people with lives and interests outside of poker.

Pursuing poker as a hobby has provided me with additional benefits, particularly skills applicable to real life. Learning to think about situations in a probabilistic sense has taught me to better analyse risk in a variety of situations, whether they be financial or behavioural. Some form of risk is encompassed in nearly every activity or decision a person undertakes so having such a skill is invaluable. As a result I have become a better decision maker and a more responsible gambler. Through playing and learning a skillful game such as poker it has become easier to identify high risk and deceptive forms of gambling and make responsible and informed decisions regarding them.

Over the course of my time playing poker I have developed my skills to the point where I have been an overall net winner. The extra money I have made from poker has helped fund other hobbies of mine including travel, scuba diving, skiing, books, collecting records, guitar and cooking.

Aside from my own personal experiences I would like to bring your attention the government’s own Review of the Interactive Gambling Act, Final Report 2012 which outlines key differences between online poker and other forms of online gambling. In the report the “Productivity Commission stressed the difference between online poker card playing and other forms of online gaming (for example online slot machines) noting that while all types of gambling carry some degree of risk, online poker card playing involves relatively lesser risk because:
• it has a different character to EGMs
• it is partly a game of skill
• there is no evidence players experience the trance like states (at least to the same degree) that occur when playing EGMs
• there is a social dimension in that you are playing against other people so it is very interactive
• other online games can be played much more quickly and the stakeholder for other games is the casino
• the ground rules, with players competing for a pot of money to which they contribute, limit losses.”

The currently regulatory approach is neither a reasonable nor proportionate response to the harms and benefits of online poker. With the introduction of recently amended Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (IGA) it will be illegal for online poker to be offered to Australians. This is extremely disappointing as while the legislation was not introduced to prohibit poker specifically, the wording of the bill technically includes poker and thus will result in its illegality. This is a most unfortunate byproduct of the legislation, one that will affect thousands of Australians who currently enjoy online poker as a hobby. One of the qualities of poker that differentiates it from other card games is inclusion of rounds of betting. This is what makes poker unique, betting is an intrinsic part of the game, without betting between rounds the game of poker simply does not exist. The legislation is clearly inadequate in distinguishing between online poker and other types of online gambling. It should be clear to anyone with first-hand experience of online poker that it should not simply be lumped into an extremely broad category of ‘click to call’ in play betting services when online poker doesn’t at all resemble other forms of gambling included within this blanket definition.

The legislation is also inadequate in terms of preventing risk to online poker players as it will be ineffective and drive players to non-reputable sites that continue to offer services illegally to Australians. For those with knowledge of the online poker environment, there are reputable sites which have online gaming licenses in various countries around the world and also abide by each countries individual laws which they offer services to. However, there are also other offshore sites without licenses that continue to offer services illegally to anyone with access to a computer and the internet. It is highly preferable to use reputable sites as they segregate player funds, offer fair games and work within each country’s respective laws thus reducing risk to the players. If the legislation in its current form passes poker enthusiasts will be forced to use the sites that offer illegal services, while the reputable operators will withdraw from the Australian market. This would be the worst possible result, as players will be unprotected by the law and the safeguards the reputable sites provide.

In terms of addressing this issue I would like to see online poker regulated within Australia or exempted from the IGA. A regulated market would offer additional tax revenue for the Australian government, funds which could be used for gambling education, safeguards and harm minimisation allowing Australians to gamble responsibly, as is their right as adults. However, failing the viability of this option the best alternative would be to exempt online poker from IGA so that reputable sites can continue to offer services to Australians and prevent players being driven to unlawful offshore operators.

Over the past 10 years poker has become one of my favourite hobbies, it is simply a great game enjoyed by many people all over the world. Online poker provides an environment where players can gamble responsibly, interact with players from around the world and pursue an academic challenge while learning new skills in the process. Myself and thousands of other Australians are able to enjoy it responsibly with a much lower risk posed than other forms of online gambling and will be devastated if it becomes illegal to do so in Australia, simply due to inadequacies of the current regulatory framework. Australia is a democracy and as such the government has a responsibility to act on behalf of its citizens. This inquiry was brought about because regular Australians don’t want to see something they are passionate about disappear. I hope whoever reads this takes my own and other people’s experiences into consideration and can help keep the game I love stay within Australia.

References
Final Report 2012 Review of the Interactive Gambling Act 2001. Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy.
https://www.communications.gov.au/fi...token=F785mC4l
Forgot to write back before.

This is great!
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote
07-13-2017 , 11:37 AM
Nothing from Stars yet with a week until the deadline. Hopefully they get that email out today. This weekend will be the last chance for a lot of recs who work to write their submission.

Unbelievably poor effort from them so far. I hope they're making their own submission detailing all of the revenue they provide to the UK govt etc. as they're the single biggest entity that will benefit financially from this legislation if we win other than the government itself
TAKE ACTION: Need urgent help to keep Australian online poker. Deadline 21 July #AusFight4Poker Quote

      
m