I don't know if this warranted a new thread so i'll just drop it here... Crown Casino executives, prison sentences :

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/26/news...nce/index.html

Sure, np. My submission;

To whom it may concern,

My name is Chris and I’m 28 years old and have played online poker recreationally for over 8 years and have received great enjoyment at a very small cost from playing. In fact, I have actually made a profit for poker playing very small tournaments where the buy in to play was as little as $0.50 cents. I love the fact I can play online from the comfort of my own for cents, not dollars and if this was taken away from me I would need to travel to the casino where I would need to wager larger amounts of money, possibly hundreds of dollars for a night’s entertainment.

I have worked in IT full time since I was 20 years old, playing online poker recreationally on weekends and occasionally a week night. During this period I have paid rent, bills and I have paid taxes just like any other person in the community and I feel like it’s my right to be able to play online in my down time if I choose too. Online poker for me is much cheaper than going out to the movies or going out to a restaurant and provides me much more enjoyment. And to top it off, I can win a tournament for 100x my buy in or make a smaller profit depending on how well I played. Even if I had a bad night and didn’t play well or got unlucky, I would only lose a couple of dollars at best.

I have also even stopped playing poker for a few years and then started playing again for entertainment. When I’m not playing poker I love to play indoor soccer, travel, see friends and eat out or go to the movies with my girlfriend. Poker by no means is a negative in my life, nor is it addictive for me. I have had numerous friends play online poker and none have got addicted and most actually stopped playing due to families and work commitments. I have also had the chance of becoming close friends with people living overseas through poker. Over the years I have been playing online poker I have actually made a profit of around $900 AUD and have never deposited any large amounts of money to any site. I have actually withdrawn more money than I have deposited. I no longer need to deposit any money to online poker through being a winning player and maintaining and growing my poker money I play with.
Online poker is also great for people who are disabled and can’t make it to the casino to play or for people who for whatever reason can’t live their home or area they live. For people who don’t live near a casino, they have online poker to play and enjoy.

The most important reason why poker needs to be differentiated from gambling is that it’s a skill based game where math’s is a very important factor. Making the correct calculations through odds of winning and card equity can allow you to have a large edge on other players. You aren’t playing against the house where the house is always at an advantage, you are playing against a real person where you can use your skill and mathematics to be a profitable player.

In daily life it’s possible for anyone to lose money, whether it’s on the stock market, real estate or a business venture. Poker is no different; it’s also possible to lose money for much of the same reasons as the above, through poor knowledge of the landscape you’re investing in, spending more than an asset is worth or bad luck and ill-discipline. But all of these options including poker can be profitable as they are all based around knowledge application to make profitable decisions.

International online poker sites need to be regulated to provide Australians with a safe way to play. If this bill goes forward without amendments to regulate online poker, poker players will be forced to play on unregulated sites which will provide a much greater risk for players. I personally will be forced to play on these sites as I will not be giving up a game I love to play online. I also know of numerous other Australian online poker players who will be doing the same. All this bill achieves is making the Australian online poker market unsafe and allows the government to dictate what a tax payer can and can’t do with their own money.

Thank you for taking the time to review my submission and I hope the right choice is made in safeguarding Australian poker players online through regulation while also allowing tax payers the freedom of spending their money on the entertainment option of their choice.


Chris

Looks like a great submission, good work. I'm writing mine right now.

This is unrelated to what's going on with online poker laws in Australia, it's executives from an Australian B+M casino running into trouble with Chinese gambling law. Interesting, but not related to what's going on here (so would belong in a new thread if it's interesting enough to be discussed to anyone)

Three pages in, might call it for the night. Will probably have 6-7 pages by the time i'm done and cut a bit with editing.

Let's get going guys we should have no problem getting 100 submissions done in total if we spread the word to the Australian poker community and at least 10 from this thread alone

Remember, the deadline is July 21.

This is the last stand for online poker in Australia and we have a real chance of getting proper regulation and sensible UK style laws. The USA didn't get the warning we've had, if you play online poker you have no excuse even if you just want to write a paragraph or two saying that you enjoy online poker and that it should be legal, DO IT.

Thanks for posting AUSkid.

Swoop: for the professional and semi-professional players making submissions - what should be our pitch? Its obviously going to be very different to the "pennies and dimes for entertainment in my own home" pitch. I'm less concerned with how I personally feel about the issue and more concerned with highlighting the points that are actually going to resonate with politicians. Thoughts?

Nevermind, just read Joeys post above - my bad for grunching.

Joey's post sums it up I guess for now, i'm using that as a guideline for mine as well while tailoring it to my personal experiences

Mentioning that you enjoy it because it's a game of skill and you've had good results because you enjoy the strategic aspect of the game is fine, but i'd say we want to stay away from terms like professional poker player except for the minority of high profile pros who will make submissions (if you're a James Obst or a Joe Hachem or a Jackie Glazier then yeah, going at it from a pro perspective is fine) - I didn't mention at all that I played full time for 7 years and would still fall under the 'semi-pro' category in mine, just that i've been playing online poker for 11 years etc (mine still isn't done so i'm not sure what the final version will look like yet) and i'm fitting in a bunch of our basic talking points weaved into a 'from my perspective' type thing

To whom it may concern,

My name is Ilavenil and I’m 36 years old married with two kids. I run my own business making games for mobile platforms. I played poker on and off both live and online since 2009. I am very sad about the fact online poker is getting banned along with other online gambling activities. Please allow me to give my thoughts for your consideration:

Poker is a very competitive game and promotes healthy competitive spirit amongst players. Australia being a sports nation with very high competitive spirit, banning online Poker will take away the edge that our people will have by gaining experience across the world. To give you a sample size, someone average playing online can play 5000 hands in a typical playing day and analyse it using latest analytical software to improve the game every day. Compare this to live, one can be lucky to play 200 hands in a 8 hour session. On top of it, there is no way to record and analyse the situation exactly and improve your game. If we take away online element, we are sadly removing the competitive nature and promoting gambling in poker.
Poker is very entrepreneurial in nature. You take calculated risks to win rewards. This is one of the reasons why top management universities across the world like MIT is offering Poker as one of their modules in their management courses. Here is the link to the course: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/sloan-sc...-poker-theory/ In particular, please watch or read the transcript from the part: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/sloan-sc...ker-economics/ where poker has helped the American economy grow in history. Being an entrepreneurial nation, we should be promoting activities that supports and grows the mindset and playing poker is one of the fine ways of doing that in my humble opinion.
I also need to mention the fact Poker is a social game where you make connections. Real connections! I now part of a facebook group with 2000 people who play poker across the globe. Any questions, help or recommendations I need, I can easily tap into their local knowledge. For example, travel recommendations, business opportunities, technology advice, etc can be obtained first hand. I dont think any other game or platform has this much social effect where people help other. And if you see gambling activities, people play against the ‘HOUSE’, which is not the case with Poker. Australians will be left behind if online poker is banned and the platform is taken away from us.

Thank you for taking the time to review my submission and I hope the right choice is made in promoting competitive, entrepreneurial and social spirit amongst us, Australians.

Ilavenil Arumugam

Nice submission. Only thing I might consider rewording is the start of the third paragraph, "I have also even stopped playing poker for a few years and then started playing again for entertainment. ". To me this reads as though the ability to stop playing poker isn't a very natural thing. Something along the lines of "Poker has never dictated the way I live my life, I have stopped playing for several years and then started playing again as a form of cheap entertainment." might illustrate your point in that paragraph a little better.

The reason why I added this in was for the opposite reason, that it is easy to stop playing when I feel like it. But your right I may of it reworded to sound better.

But I think it's maybe a little nit picky, but definitely worth fixing for future submissions.

Also, It may be a good idea contacting the guys who run pub poker (the APL or NPPL), whilst they don't really play online poker I'm sure they would like to help the poker community and lodge a short submission. I just tried contacting my home town's local APL page to see if they will make a post to their 900 followers. Will let you know how it goes.

On the website it looks like contact details are encouraged to be included with your submission. Full name, contact or email address, phone number. etc. Are these needed in the document itself, or are the details added during the submission process?

I have contacted my local APL pub poker guys on their FB and have posted on their page. They have also said many of their players are aware of the situation and will do their best to help.

I would 100% make NO mention of poker related software in your submissions, someone PM'd me to read theirs and it had a mention as does the submission above on this page. Talk about how you study the game with your friends to improve and so on but not that software helps you, that 'sounds' like cheating to an uneducated person even though it's not, which is the target audience for these submissions

At best lawmakers won't know what we're talking about re huds/pio/etc, at worst they'll think of it as a tool to gain an unfair edge and swindle other gamblers

I would go as far as to say it's pretty important NOT to mention software when talking about studying the game to improve as it 'sounds' unfair and not skill based.

The rest of the submissions i've read look great though

Re the personal documentation i'm not sure. I included my name and suburb in my submission but assume that all of the address stuff etc would be a part of the submission process and not required in the document itself but i'm not sure as i'm still working on mine

Sorry to bother swoopy I know your busy with **** and winning tournaments (yes I rail you congrats on the sunday 2 wins right?)

Ive been away from thread awhile, can you give me a quick 1,2,3 on what to do, where, and when.

Sure it'd help others too, just unsure what i'm looking for with so many links in the past 30pages

Thanks, had a couple close calls on the weekend in the big stuff, small profit but every little bit counts

Ok here's what to do

First off the deadline is July 21 your submission needs to be made before then. So aim to have it done by July 14 at the latest so you have some leeway in case there are any issues submitting it.

To make a submission do the following

Read this page.

http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_...ns/OnlinePoker

Then write up a paragraph or two on your thoughts about each of the following


the participation of Australians in online poker;

the nature and extent of any personal or social harms and benefits arising from participating in online poker; and

whether the current regulatory approach, in particular, the recently amended Interactive Gambling Act 2001, is a reasonable and proportionate response to those harms and benefits.

It's fine to just keep those headings and give your thoughts on each matter from a personal perspective.

If you aren't sure what to write Joey has some suggestions in this post

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2512

Then you make your submission on the website here http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_...ns/OnlinePoker using the upload submission button or if you have any issues doing that you can contact the people in charge of submissions here

Committee Secretariat contact:

Phone: +61 2 6277 3526
Fax: +61 2 6277 5818
ec.sen@aph.gov.au

Thanks for taking the time to make a submission and if you need any help just hit me in this thread or on twitter or whatever

Perhaps we should get this post added to the OP in case of people coming to the thread for the first time until the deadline for the committee submissions along with Joey's post I linked above?

Yes - whoever has the power, please add Swoop's and Joey's post to the OP

DONE!

Let's get on board here boys, this takes 10minutes for something you enjoy.

I'm usually a "ah nah i'll let them take care of it" person but for once I became a "ah nah I'll do it myself" person.

Simple as, speak from your heart and lets grind it up (submissions and bankrolls combined)

+1

I often think that there will be a high degree of laziness and letting others do what needs doing but with this, anyone reading this thread is going to at least take 10 minutes to write something. Personally, I'm going to spend some time on it and put thought into it and think I'll enjoy reliving discovering poker and my journey over the years, reflecting what the game has given me beyond the profit.

Question - I was wondering whether to get additional submissions from non-poker players such as wives, partners etc. Assuming they're cool with it they could write a short piece from a non-player's perspective. This could perhaps reflect that for many of us this is a rewarding hobby and has benefitted our and their lives and many ways beyond just the $. And also that it can be integrated into (for example) family life without being disruptive (like being out all night at a casino). It also adds some weight if the reader thinks all poker players are deluded degens. Thoughts?

decided to not be lazy since this involves me so ive written a submission but I'm posting it here first before I submit as to what I should leave or take out.i have no idea how to properly paragraph it and my spelling is probably all fkd so don't grill me on this I'm doing part here

also ive had about 12 beers so I was trying to pour my heart out with the risk of sounding like an idiot but who gives a fk hey,here it is

To whom it may concern

My name is James age 29 with 1 child and a partner,just your average every day to day working australian in my eyes.I dont get out much now days since i have alot of responsibilities as a young
adult with a family.Doing what i have to do to keep them safe and ensuring that i can provide the best environment for them that i possibly can at this current point of time and the future to come.

Im writng to you because one of my favourite hobbies to do in my free time when i do manage to get any if all during the working week is play the game of POKER,not the slot machines that people often
confuse with the name pokies,i can see how many people unfamiliar with the game could mix the two up they sound similar and with little understanding of the two could easily be confused,i have played
the game on and of for years now starting out for no cash value learning the game with friends to playing online for play chips then eventually for real money. now ive never been well of by anymeans
i grew up with a single parent and two siblings and was raised to appreciate everything day by day as it comes.so the first time i played for real money was online i deposited the minimum of 10 dollars
and quicky lost it with no worries at all it wasnt a great deal of money,i done the same again having the option of a minumum of 10m dollars a few more times before i stated having some success and learnt
a bit about bank roll managment and how to correctly wager my balance in accordance to the limit of the games i played which was great i felt as long as i was repsonsible i wouldnt lose my money and
if there ever was the situation where i would need to deposit again that there was limits in place to stop how much i could lose.my point about that is i realised when i first went to the casino to play
poker for the first time was it was much more expensive to play being the lowest buy in was 60 dollars compared to 10 dollars online and there was clearly no limits in place to stop me from unloading
my whole bank account at this place not that i would personally do it but i could see many of people doing it with no one or no boundaries in place to stop this in the live poker habbitat not to mention the
number of other gambling games this environment offers. and as a poker player playing a game i know is skill based and a player vs player game meaning you dont play the house/casino i knew this was a dangerous
environment for anyone to be in compared to the comfort of my own home playing penny stakes online.but saying all that the world is a changing place and the internet and online environment is rapidly devolping
more than anyone could imagine im sure and that is why i personally am all for the majority of the bill purposed except for the ablitly for me being able to play a safe secure game in the comfort of my own
home and by trusted and reputable providers which is also why i think that it should be regulated in our country so that we are protected by our government yet still have the freedom to do as we like which
is becoming more and more limited. to sum this all up i would be greatly dissapointed if i was put in unsavory situations to continue with my passion for poker which well may be the result of un regulated poker in australia

thank you for your time and concern on the matter

The APL/888pl are on our side:

"We will be putting a submission in early next week. We do have the same view as you that the average poker lifecycle of a player, in many cases, starts off with online poker and then starts to mature through out leagues.

We have spoken to Joseph on a number of occasions and, I hope, he knows if AOPA needs anything we will help out when and if we can.

Regards,

Michael Ratnik
National Operations Manager
Full House Group Pty. Ltd."

Should we see if the casinos are on our side?

I thought I'd be lazy, but considering the fun/ earning potential that can be lost, I'd be writing up a submission this weekend after my sessions.

Good luck to us

There's no excuse for laziness here. You can get it done in 20-30 minutes. Literally 1 episode of a TV show you can skip to write this instead.

Good to hear

I asked the Crown poker room manager and PR lady and they both basically said (at Aussie Millions this was prior to amended UIGEA) that while they personally think online poker should be legal Crown isn't taking a position on the matter one way or the other and is staying out of it. Not sure what other casinos think or if Crown are open to amending their position

Had a busy day but might try and finish my submission tonight, I have a feeling it'll be 5-7 pages and I might need to cut a bit to keep it clear/concise/relevant

titan poker, an ipoker skin emailed me today, saying they are pulling out due to new regulations.

i find it interesting that Crown are so indifferent, surely they can at least entertain the idea that legal online poker will sustain, at least for some people, an interest in poker as a whole, and thus live poker? definitely a shame they're not getting more involved