There are some interesting thoughts for why we should pursue a segregated poker market, but it's hard to be convinced how harm minimisation protections for a segregated poker market differentiate from an international poker market. If anything, it would just be a microcosm of the current situation with a small percentage of players continuing to not be protected.

@Australian1
1. If a segregated poker market was established here, then its reasonable to assume that the prize/player pools would be much larger relative to the current illegal app poker games offered.
The irony here is that there a lot of players who don't play app poker either (don't like software, low player volume, agent issues etc.), so they access illegal services like BCP, Ignition, ACR etc.

2. As a poker player, I would find it frustrating to play games on an Australian based site with only other Australians, when that site was attracting a high volume of international players/massive prize pools that I wasn't able to compete with.
E.g. Omaha is growing in popularity as more recreational players are learning how to play it. An Australian based business could offer NL/Omaha, but predominantly focus more on Omaha varieties/objectives establishing a reputation for "The best Omaha software, and fun Omaha games". Poker is a very small world, this software and fun omaha games would attract players fast, but as Australians playing in a segregated poker market, we wouldn't be able to participate in these thriving Omaha games with international players.

3. Not sure I agree here...Maybe in a home poker game environment (not just literally) sure you might have 1 regular player/5 recreational, but usually small fields have a higher proportion of regulars as opposed to recreational players especially, like you said, because the regular players multi table, but also most recreational players are unaware of these games or don't play because it is just regular players. Large player pools consist of a large proportion of recreational players due to prize pool advertising, word of mouth, easy to use software etc. This is why all these "professional player" backed sites failed/are failing because they only have a small proportion of recreational players and the losing regular players just stop playing on the site.

I doubt an international poker market relative to an Australian segregated poker market would be the difference in why a player avoided a game. Most losing players don't utilise the advice/experience from professional/problem gamblers in regards to financial management - main factor in game avoidance. Not to mention most recreational players don't care if they win or lose, they care more about availability/oppurtunity.
Most of the time it's usually the players who expect to win an x amount of return but fail to do so (regardless of game style) because of erroneous beliefs, improper financial management, jumping stakes, poor emotional regulation etc. that results in eventual avoidance.

I personally am all for a segregated poker market - if the government forced it. But if this was established on the premise that it provided better harm minimisation protections than an international poker market, I would strongly make the argument that it leaves an oppurtunity for poker players to use illegal services. An international poker market, which also offered poker games separately from casino gaming, would offer better player protections because it would significantly reduce the risk of illegal services being used.

An Australian segregated poker market would create a microcosm of the current environment forcing the players who are left out to further the fight for online poker in an international market. All the expectations for a segregated poker market can be met in an international poker market...
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@Jaamit

Thanks for the link.

I found this study, not related to yours lol. It's kind of interesting in regards to "trying" to establish an evidence based approach to "responsible gambling". Thought you mind find it interesting...

Responsible gambling: a synthesis of the empirical evidence
Robert Ladouceur, Paige Shaffer, Alex Blaszczynski, Howard J. Shaffer
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...9.2016.1245294

Update from Joey?

Live poker will take a harsh hit IMO due to covid/covid related restricitions (people not wanting to wear masks etc) Casinos will just replace live rooms with more spread our "covid safer" slot mahcine areas. APL/WPTL/APT may be able to hold small live pub events but can they run their big championships that attract huge crowds. and obviously where they make most their money from.

i know "its a pandemic" but its the perfect time to draft smart well thought out reformed online gaming legislation?

Swoop, any chance you could text Joey asking for a quick update? He has mentioned in this thread and in that interview that he was trying to have this meeting again.

Sure i'll send him a message asking if he can update the thread

edit: done

Has anyone tried to reach out to Phil Galfond to see if RIO would be interested in getting involved somehow?

Can Aussies play at RIO?

No, they can't.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...ayers-1683101/

aww man..

Venom on 24th Jul for those interested on ACR, could be fun

In theory that could change if the laws change, they'd just need to apply for a license like all other sites

I have noticed Australian players on the GG Network playing. Is any one playing on there and if so how?... I did have a grandfather Natural 8 account however it doesnt work as blocked due to Australian restrictions. Support said these Australian players maybe on other skins.

Also, anyone on pokerbros and getting >25% RB?

i dont play on pokerbros but if you ask around enough you should be able to get 40%

Pokerbros will prob depend which club etc

We can't openly discuss playing on GG/N8 other than to say yes, many Australians are playing on there and you can probably guess how but PM me or w/e if you want me to elaborate

Sometimes we just have to go back to the future, and make slight changes to the changes we made...

" ...100-point identification is not a trivial thing for customers to be required to provide you with and will address issues like inadvertent access by children, limits on credit card betting and even, arguably, subject to privacy requirements, information sharing between registered providers within Australia so that you cannot have a problem gambler jumping from one registered site to another and clocking up large gambling debts that way. The technology permits these things to occur in a way that can never occur in preventing someone going from one casino to another or from one race track to another or from one offline poker machine to another.This is our point really: look at the strengths of the Internet. Do not look at the issue as simply access to poker machines 24 hours a day; look at the extent to which the medium itself can provide that. Structure in your licence requirements to stipulate who may access your service and upon what conditions, and deal with it that way."

Are any of you guys actually winning (over an extended period) on the phone apps? I couldn't beat them, and have played professionally and won on just about all the major sites since 2001 (made over a million playing at Party from 2005-08 at the 5/10 NLHE for instance.) On both UPoker and Pokerbros things were fine for the first 10k hands or so and I was winning handily, and then on both sites I lost over 20 buyins in a row with suckout after suckout. Both downswings were much bigger than I've ever experienced (and almost identical in character). Other pros I know have similar stories. On Pokerbros you can't track the players but on UPoker I couldn't find a single long-term winner after a few months - unheard of on the major (honest) sites. So play there if you must, just don't expect an honest game.

I couldn't get past the software, it's woeful, played some home games during the lockdown/isolation period recently and hated the software so haven't played on these apps seriously.

Suppose I got spoiled by the major sites when we were allowed to play.

Interesting post though, wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

I've been on pokerbros since March - Diamond Union and doing pretty well up $20k USD playing PLO20, 60 & 100 over 150k hands. There's alot of action on the lower stakes so definitely swingy and badbeats. Win rate has been best at 2am onwards.

ACR account still working but get crushed there.

Use to win on Stars and the old Poker Asia Pacific

are you trolling? used to win on stars? only the house wins in gambling.

This has got to be a joke...

"The Interactive Gambling Amendment (Banning Social Casinos and Other Measures) Bill 2020 creates a criminal offence and civil liability for any person who provides social casino services to Australian customers. Social casinos services are games of chance, or mixed chance and skill, which are played on applications or online and for which the customer gives monetary payment to play the game but cannot cash out their virtual chips for money. Currently social casino games are classed as entertainment so are not subject to any gambling regulations.

The bill also gives the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) the power to apply for Federal Court injunctions against carriage service providers to block domain names, URLS and IP addresses of online locations which provide prohibited interactive gambling services and prohibited social casino services to Australian customers. The injunction may also require an online search engine provider to take reasonable steps to remove a search result which refers users to the online location of the prohibited service.

The recent COVID-19 restrictions have led to greater numbers of people accessing online gambling services including social casinos. Online gambling carries similar risks as traditional gambling services, including addiction and subsequent mental and physical health implications. Online gambling services also carry heightened risks due to ease of access and use of mobile devices. The increasing popularity of social casinos in particular is problematic because such sites are attractive to new gamblers and children, many of whom go on to more orthodox gambling.

The bill targets provision of sites, operating as a disincentive for providers rather than penalising the user of the prohibited site or service."

The IGA Memorandum clearly states:
"The Government is concerned not to impose unreasonable obligations upon Internet service providers".

The government is only interested in the public gambling on poker machines, in casinos, and on horse and sports betting. If you start telling them this is this other smaller market that needs regulation in online poker they will be like can't it just be absorbed into those other regulated forms of gambling rather than opening it up even more and especially when there are powerful interests that want to protect the current status quo. The only party I can see wanting to do anything about it is One Nation and yes I know we don't like to talk about waiting for the next election but there is a great likelihood that One Nation will get 2 senate spots in Queensland next election.

Are they talking about social casinos like how u can pay something like $5 and receive 1000 play money chips on facebook and stuff like that? Honestly if people do that, they don't deserve to have that $5 anyway...

Any word from Joey, swoop? Or are we going to wait another 6 months for any type of news. We;re being told that stuff is in the works when all the news points to the counter.

If so-called "social casinos" like Zynga, PokerStars and others weren't selling their wares and addicting children as young as thirteen years old, you might have a point, but seriously, they can go **** themselves if you ask me.

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is it - the key line is 'for which the customer gives monetary payment to play the game but cannot cash out their virtual chips for money.'

The issue with these games is that because it's not technically 'gambling,' they market them to children to get them hooked on the game, so that when they turn 18 they are already addicted.

how can you be addicted to gambling when its not gambling?

I would guess you can get hooked on the idea of the game and as you turn 18 the idea of playing it for money is far more appealing. A lot of people started out playing play money only and then would transition to real money.

Looks like things are moving in the right direction!