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Old 11-20-2012, 05:21 PM   #1
Disorienter
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Swedish IRS strikes down!

The Swedish IRS strikes down on professionell poker players and demands accounting for money won between 2008 and 2011, especially from sites outside the EU.

Sources and more information:
http://www.poker.se/nyheter/77962442...erspelare.html

Discussion at swedish forum:
http://pokerforum.nu/forum/ekonomi-s...igsstigen.html

The tax rules are ridiculous, money that cannot be accounted for, will be seen as income (e g money goes from EU site to MoneyBookers to Stars and the correct history cannot be restored/requested).
So far I've been updated that if player A wins 100k on site A and loses it on site B, player A has to pay approximately 33% tax on the winnings from site A, even though he is break even as a total. The IRS has started seizing computers and hard drives already.

This is a minor black friday for all winning swedish poker players.
I really feel for people that binced on sites like Full Tilt and Stars.com.

Last edited by Disorienter; 11-20-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:26 PM   #2
Mattraq1
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

isnt that all countries? If u cant account for money that u magically have then it is income. By law in the USA if you find a $20 bill on the ground in a parking lot you are SUPPOSED to report that as income.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:27 PM   #3
El_Padroni
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Was this cause of the Bandidos?
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:28 PM   #4
TNCS
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Here in Holland, if you cant account for income but the IRS still suspects you have had income, they will make an estimation and you'll have to pay tax over that.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:30 PM   #5
Otty_Botty
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattraq1 View Post
isnt that all countries? If u cant account for money that u magically have then it is income. By law in the USA if you find a $20 bill on the ground in a parking lot you are SUPPOSED to report that as income.
No. Some things are taxed and others aren't. As far as I know, gambling winnings aren't taxed here in Australia.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:31 PM   #6
bankrollORfreeroll
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Thank God Canada doesn't have tax on gambling winnings, and I hope the **** it stays like that.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:33 PM   #7
Disorienter
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattraq1 View Post
isnt that all countries? If u cant account for money that u magically have then it is income. By law in the USA if you find a $20 bill on the ground in a parking lot you are SUPPOSED to report that as income.
I think this is the usual case yes. However, we had no clear law on gambling winnings. All winnings withing EU was/is tax free. But suddenly the IRS can demand us to account for money coming from EU sites that maybe doesn't even exist anymore. How can one prove that his 200k winnings originally came from Entraction in 2009?
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:54 PM   #8
Press Gang
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

wow that sounds really harsh, worse than in germany even

gl convincing them to be reasonable
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:52 PM   #9
nl5warrior
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

why are governments ****ing braindead?
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:20 PM   #10
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

The IRS has started seizing computers and hard drives already. WTF this is sooo bad and wrong!

why are governments ****ing braindead? Why? Coz thay are so corruption and only want money!

GL Sweden players
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:40 PM   #11
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

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Originally Posted by bankrollORfreeroll View Post
Thank God Canada doesn't have tax on gambling winnings, and I hope the **** it stays like that.
If you're a 'professional poker player' you're supposed to pay taxes since you have a 'reasonable expectation of profits' or 'poker income as a business'. Most people never do but if they decide that you fall into that category you could end up pay years of back taxes depending on your situation. Lots of sites with that info, here's a random googled one - http://canadapokernews.com/canada-po...oker-winnings/
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #12
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

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Originally Posted by nl5warrior View Post
why are governments ****ing braindead?
they want your $$$
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:20 PM   #13
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

LOL LAND OF THE FR---- wait what?
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:09 PM   #14
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

The part where money becomes separate among depositing to a different site is weird but something people just need to know if you live there. Not really a big deal to just pull some money aside that you've won from a site for the IRS when moving to another site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G56VgsLfKY4
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:13 PM   #15
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otty_Botty View Post
No. Some things are taxed and others aren't. As far as I know, gambling winnings aren't taxed here in Australia.
not taxed for non-businesses, one of the most successful sports bettors in the world is currently in a huge tax battle with the australian tax authorities who contend his operation is a business- to be fair they had statisticians etc employed so id imagine players are fine.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:16 PM   #16
BlackStar9
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

GL Swedish players. Fight the power.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:25 PM   #17
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

big twist in the whole "northern-europe-has-the-happiest-people-in-the-world" thing.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:33 PM   #18
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bankrollORfreeroll View Post
Thank God Canada doesn't have tax on gambling winnings, and I hope the **** it stays like that.
def lucky for now but it wont stay that way. How long is any ones guess.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:36 PM   #19
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzuff View Post
LOL LAND OF THE FR---- wait what?
haha that was pretty good
Quote:
Originally Posted by irunreallybad View Post
big twist in the whole "northern-europe-has-the-happiest-people-in-the-world" thing.
at least they arent raiding home games and sticking guns to a person's face for playing a game of cards in the convenience of their home.

TO CANADA! LAND OF THE FREE
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:36 PM   #20
theskillzdatklls
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

flee to mongolia
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:49 PM   #21
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

**** that is massive. I think if somebody is actually showing a consistent profit and their sole income is from poker - then I think they should pay the applicable tax for their country and if somebody is done for tax evasion on a reasonable-high income from poker I'm not really going to sympathise too much.

But - this sounds way beyond that - sounds like it's going to be incredible unfair and possibly result in people paying a tax on losses and break even amounts. Sounds ridiculous, good luck to all involved.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:29 PM   #22
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Lose 10k on party, win 10k on ftp. You are even but still owe IRS ~3k in taxes. Makes sense.

Clear taxrules should have been applied years ago, now you dont even know for sure what sites that are counted to be EU ones (old ftp should have been for sure imo, but Swedish IRS doesnt seems to think so)

Have no problem that players making a living on poker should tax for it, like all Works. But this action from IRS with all greyzones is really low.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:41 PM   #23
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disorienter View Post
How can one prove that his 200k winnings originally came from Entraction in 2009?
Hand Histories?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:44 PM   #24
moki
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

If they do indeed try to retroactively go after revenue, that could be a serious nightmare for Swedish pros who simply don't have the money anymore.

The odds of poker players keeping good records on this type of thing are pretty slim... I guess they could go by bank transactional records, and unreported income. That could result in some extremely unexpected and crushing bills.

Article Google English translation link -- for what it's worth.

Discussion forum Google English translation link
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:16 AM   #25
the4bettingmonk
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Re: Swedish IRS strikes down!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moki View Post
If they do indeed try to retroactively go after revenue, that could be a serious nightmare for Swedish pros who simply don't have the money anymore.

The odds of poker players keeping good records on this type of thing are pretty slim... I guess they could go by bank transactional records, and unreported income. That could result in some extremely unexpected and crushing bills.

Article Google English translation link -- for what it's worth.

Discussion forum Google English translation link
nevermind bills im already hearing about players who have had computers/cars/assets seized already- dont wanna out names obv. Partypoker is fine since it was based in EU, pokerstars.com and ipoker are not. Entraction was based in malta no? Ongame based in malta afaik.
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