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Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars? Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?
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Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?

04-18-2020 , 03:46 PM
Turbo Series #11 $55 125k took place on April 6th, I searched the forums for discussion on this final table but didn't find anything, I'm sorry if I overlooked something.

The controversy revolves around a big fold and a few other hands involving two players - ''M Cunha G'' and ''BrunoBoucas'' - of the same stable, the biggest in Brazil, 4bet Poker Team.
Final table replay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZsKQWhdnY

The hand that got everyone suspicious is at 38:11. After being accused of collusion, M Cunha explained his thought process and even posted a 7-minute long video on his Instagram basically saying the same things and added that he didn't consider open jamming because the table was playing passively with many walks, few resteals etc. He also demanded respect because collusion allegations are very serious and he studies a lot which is why he was able to fold his hand. The video is in Portuguese but if anyone is interested his Instagram is ''cunhamcg''.

Many said that even though they play for the same stable the fold itself is not suspicious because he did prove that it's an ICM fold once he adjusts villain's range reasonably. However, three other hands could suggest that they were indeed aware of each other's hole cards.
At 2:02 both played very passively with strong hands.
At 38:53, what could be considered a standard resteal is played passively when Bruno has a strong hand.
At 40:14, M Cunha didn't seem to mind restealing a much weaker hand than A7s when the last one in chips is even shorter than the previous hand.
What do you think 2p2? Is the AK hand enough evidence? If it isn't, do you think the other 3 hands are suspicious or are they standard plays?

Both M Cunha and BrunoBoucas haven't played since April 14th so there's a chance both accounts are frozen and being investigated but I have no reliable information on that.
04-18-2020 , 04:17 PM
They probably did collude, but it would be impossible to prove with those hands.

2:02 - it's early on the FT, hand was played fine by both players. Could argue for a river bet with J9 but that's about it
38:11 - icm fold given the short stack, seems ok, albeit nitty. The shove with AA is more suspect as a 3bet to 10-14M would be standard. This is the most suspicious hand as it was played out in non-typical fashion that two colluding players with their stacks would play the hand out like, but non-colluding players would almost never play the hand out like this.
38:53/40:14 - meh, people play hands weirdly in a lot of spots when short stacked. You can't always assume people will play a certain (robotic) way. J4s he might have felt like he had good fold equity sb vs bb as well as being down to 12bbs he wants to stay ahead of the shortest stack. A7s he can see a flop and still have a reshove stack if he misses the board.
04-18-2020 , 04:49 PM
What do you expect from Brazilians? I wouldn´t be surprised. Stables are bad for the economy.

Clear colluding for me. Pretty sure Pokerstars will find more evidence otherwise accounts would be already open.
04-18-2020 , 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuklearWinter Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?
38:11 - icm fold given the short stack, seems ok, albeit nitty. The shove with AA is more suspect as a 3bet to 10-14M would be standard.
Reshoving the aces is standard with 20 bigs 3 betting 35% of your stack OOP is just telegraphing your hand is aces.

The player with AK is 3/4 and the bottom stack has 11 big blinds ICM isn't really a factor here its plain and simple collusion. If the AK player was 2/4 and the bottom 2 stacks had 3-4 big blinds then yes its a fold but with those stack distributions the AK is just a open jam to avoid having to raise fold.

Last edited by U shove i call; 04-18-2020 at 05:06 PM.
04-18-2020 , 05:31 PM
all stars has to do is filter M cunha's hands and sort by ~20bb stack, AQ/AK, is at a FT/money bubble, in position CO and see how often he is open shoving that stacksize vs minraising it, should be enough info to make a clear decision for them

also not sure why he says its passive when the hand before the AK/AA hand bb reshoves 87o for 20bb over a 15bb sb open?

also yeah he shoves A8o and j4s for reshoves and flats the a7s vs btn, could see some arguments but combined with the AA/AK hand looks pretty sketchy
04-18-2020 , 06:09 PM
Even if they didnt collude its soft play for sure ,brazilian players folding 20 bb AK sure expecially agressive reg .
04-18-2020 , 06:24 PM
Agree with the poster that said they most likely colluded but that you won’t prove it with those hands.
04-18-2020 , 08:10 PM
As the player possibly directly affected by this. I am patiently waiting for Pokerstars response...
04-18-2020 , 10:55 PM
I've heard a few times from very reputable players that a some of the biggest Brazilian stables have mandatory ghosting deals when deep in tournaments, to the point that many have applied to other stables as they would like to be able to make some decisions themselves (but they still continue to allow the ghosting to happen and take the profits, therefore they are straight up cheaters). I'm not sure if this is one of them, but it seems fairly likely. There are so many weak Brazilian regs with great results because players who you play with day in day out are not the same people who make the decisions on final tables for those accounts.

AK spot might be close ICM wise (ive not run the numbers) but if that's the case then every single competent reg out there just open jams to avoid this spot. If AK can so quickly fold then its probably an indication that he knows softplay is happening, even if they arent directly colluding. J9ss is so clearly either a turn or river bet, and sometimes 3 streets that no winning reg would ever find the check button twice unless they for some reason wish to preserve the other players stack.

The probability that this is innocent is close to zero and the stable owners, the players and probably the rest of the stable should be dealt with accordingly by stars.
04-18-2020 , 11:46 PM
I mean if someone ghosted both of these accounts, then it's technically not colluding, caus only one player was involved. Jokes aside, thx for bringing this up. AK hand seems very questionable. You can make every hand look like a fold in hrc or icmmizer with the wrong input....

He also made that fold kinda quick, only took a couple of sec from his time bank. The other plays seems okaish. Will be hard to ban him only based on the AK hand, even though looks extremily suspicious.
04-19-2020 , 03:42 AM
impossible to prove, AK is very easy to defend a fold in that spot, you would be surprised how many people fold there.
04-19-2020 , 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bc11816 Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?
impossible to prove, AK is very easy to defend a fold in that spot, you would be surprised how many people fold there.
No good player would they would just open rip themselves if they could get icm ****ed with AK specifically. Sure plenty of recs might but these guys are professional players.
04-19-2020 , 06:00 AM
I thought there was nothing fishy until the J4s hand. That was ICM suicide pretty much. At 40.24 in the video.
04-19-2020 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fragglerock45 Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?
I thought there was nothing fishy until the J4s hand. That was ICM suicide pretty much. At 40.24 in the video.
Huh? looks like that had exonerates them. Those are not the two being accused.
04-19-2020 , 02:01 PM
lol this guy 'xuy123z' apparently won some micro spin and go for $1 mil. I guess he is the one with the "i wanna be interviewed on youtube" thread. He is punting off stacks with any2 in $5k turbo series high roller right now oh boy.
04-20-2020 , 07:50 AM
Really obvious collusion imo. If you're a serious player you wouldn't minraise fold AKo there with 20bb, and it just so happens the 3better is in the same stable with AA. AKo is a slamdunk call, the next shortest stack is still 11bb.
04-20-2020 , 03:12 PM
I've literally just skimmed 3 hands:

AK fold to AA, suspicious but ok benefit of the doubt. Very next hand he flats the bb with A7s vs button open at 15bb, that seems just as suspicious to me. Maybe I'm not giving enough credit to ICM here, however, he then 3b jams J4s vs SBs min raise. I think in isolation all of those hands can be defended but put together seem somewhat suspicious.
04-20-2020 , 03:33 PM
Cheats
04-20-2020 , 03:38 PM
Folds AK to his friend
Didnt 3b jam A7s Big blind v button his friend
Jams J4s BB v SB against nonfriend

If he was so big ICM expert as he claims in his youtube vid then he wouldnt resteal risk all his chips on icm suicide with J4s

This is 100% collusion right there

Last edited by Bestpokerplayereu; 04-20-2020 at 03:45 PM.
04-20-2020 , 04:04 PM
stables make games lless profitable, less fun and apparently also unfair.

ban them
04-20-2020 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestpokerplayereu Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?
Folds AK to his friend
Didnt 3b jam A7s Big blind v button his friend
Jams J4s BB v SB against nonfriend

If he was so big ICM expert as he claims in his youtube vid then he wouldnt resteal risk all his chips on icm suicide with J4s

This is 100% collusion right there
The J4s hand is not ICM suicide go and plug it into HRC. If the SB is raising too much (which looks like this is the case) then that jam prints money.

I plugged in the ak hand and he has to call tight but can call ak. This is range dependent of course if his buddy is quite nitty and or the rest of the table is very weak he can pass. Kinda suspicious but not conclusive proof.
04-20-2020 , 08:56 PM
Seems its a clear collusion

AA vs AK , its just a completely hilarious hand , if Pokerstars say that is not collusion
then they are part of this scam

There is also a lot of reports of MTT players who know others are
ghosted at FTs

This is so obvious i just dont understand how come nobody does anything about it

Stables are the most decising factor wich is killing the games

Strangely nothing happens.

Last edited by TonyBass; 04-20-2020 at 09:04 PM.
04-20-2020 , 11:47 PM
Yawn. People keep posting in this thread so I figured I'd watch the replay.

You can not prove collusion here, no matter what.

Were they? Likely, but that does not matter at all bc you cant prove it.
04-21-2020 , 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NuklearWinter Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?
38:11 - icm fold given the short stack, seems ok, albeit nitty
how can a play be both ok and nitty at the same time? nitty literally means "so conservatively tight, it was NOT OK"
04-21-2020 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestpokerplayereu Suspicious plays at Turbo Series FT on Pokerstars?
Folds AK to his friend
Didnt 3b jam A7s Big blind v button his friend
Jams J4s BB v SB against nonfriend

If he was so big ICM expert as he claims in his youtube vid then he wouldnt resteal risk all his chips on icm suicide with J4s

This is 100% collusion right there
Shoving is different than calling.
If he was cheating with his friend why would he shove jc 4c when his friend blocked folds and his hand?

      
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