it was stickied last night. guessing there were some differing opinions about it today.

no worries. this thing will be bumped for days/weeks.

The UB Regulars thread makes me sad. Complete with lots of posts from 2+2 mods and a coach from a major site. Pretty sure the HSNL sticky was posted there once and they got all indignant.

Great post. As someone relatively new to online poker (and generally out of the loop), it's a huge help to see all the pertinent information presented in a concise and accurate way.

If someone has shirts made, I'll buy one to wear in Vegas.

One of the biggest problems with these situations if the 5th column in the player base. There is no end to apologists and fan boys and people who make excuses and support the sites in these situations. I know why they do it, however not unlike PH I find them all repulsive shills and cowards simply put - there is doing what is right and what is easy.

Agreed, just think of all the people who may/may not have ridden this horse for a long time under the radar. These people were dumb enough to get caught (thank GOD!) and show the evil underbelly all us people with computer knowledge and human being greed understanding (also behind the scenes info) could safely say it wasn't a safe place to play.

Think about this one thing....who has better programmers computer gaming or online poker? Who has intimate details of cheating and works with 3rd party companies embedding anti-cheat clients - and after all that they STILL have a huge problem with hacking of the code in some instances over night and are in a losing battle of patches with the hackers/cheaters. And there is NO MONEY involved with this and they are this relentless to be able to cheat and get auto head shots....but online is immune according to the drooling masses of fan boys.

All I hope is I get AD or PH on my table in Vegas next month!

I disagree with your attitude that because a wikipedia page can not use a forum post as a source that adding this information to AP/UB's pages can not be accomplished.

One of the things that I saw time and time again while researching and writing about this scandal is the intelligence and resourcefulness of motivated twoplustwoers who want to accomplish something. There were certainly times during the initial investigation of the Absolute Poker scandal and the Ultimate Bet scandal that posters thought that the corporate cover ups and denials provided insurrmountable road blocks. Instead of being stopped, the posters on this forum discovered the cover ups and used the sites actions to further prove their guilt.

I am sure that if someone wants to include parts of this summary in the UB / AP wikipedia pages they will find a way to cite their sources so that their edits do not get taken down. A simple google search of "Absolute Poker Scandal" (21,500 results) or "Ultimate Bet scandal" (618 results) should reveal at least one site that wikipedia accepts as a legitimate source (I also believe that the disparity of the number of results for those two searches highlights the need for the UB story to be told.) Also, many of the links contained in my original post link to outside sources. I hope that if someone decides to update their wikipedia pages that they use graphics and data to clearly make their case.

Additionally, there have been people who have posted in this thread who have stated that they will write a story on this on their poker news site (ie. Shronk who works for pokerroad.com) I see no reason why these people wouldn't want to link to their article as a source in the wikipedia. The links will help achieve the altruistic goal of spread the story while also driving traffic to their websites. The important thing about editing this story into wikipedia and citing many sources is that doing so will effect how high the descriptions of this scandal appear when people google "Ultimate Bet" or "Absolute Poker."



I know that wikipedia has a strong influence on google search rankings but I am not sure the reason why this is nor am I well versed on how to optimize this effect. If anyone knows how to do so please share it in this thread so that when a motivated poster edits their wikipedia pages they can do so in a manner that will help publicize this scandal.


I would like to reiterate that I grant anybody the right to reproduce what I have written in this thread as long as your work is properly cited

moar like Annie Dook amirite?

Here is a link to a thread I made when the AP scandal broke. AP and UB are about the only 2 major sites I have not played on going back to 1999.

Cliff Notes:

I point out UB's first live tournament (2002) was a sham and that AP and UB was/is owned by the same people. Annie Duke possibly coaching her boyfriend in a UB tounament and Russ hamilton's shadiness are also covered. People make fun of me for bringing up stuff from 5 years ago.

"UB was never going to pay a pro anything. That is why Daniel didn't go. A free trip to participate in a publicity stunt wasn't enough to entice Daniel N.

When UB started to get bad publicity, UB paid Phil Gordon and Russ Hamilton was able to say Phil was paid -- end of story."

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ad.php?t=35863

I've done numerous t-shirt orders for organizations before. If someone has an idea for a graphic, I can get the ball rolling.

"I got superused by UB & AP, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"

you could make an "ultimatebetscandal.com" website and put that on the t shirt and put this article there.

FYI: A twoplustwo poster has registered the domain http://www.ultimatebetcheats.com

That website redirects directly to this post.

Feel free to tell poker players who are unfamiliar with twoplustwo and NVG that all they need to do is go to http://www.ultimatebetcheats.com to learn more about this issue.

Thanks again to everyone who is thinking of ways to help the involved players find remuneration and to ensure that this story is publicized to dissuade renegade poker site operators from committing crimes such as these in the future.


Edit: The last poster made his post while I was making this one. Great minds think alike I guess

Thats it. Just make shirts with that website on it and that will gain more than enough info. Alot of people will probably ask about it to and you can just say check it out all the info needed is there. Start making shirts.

Anything with gimmicky or 2+2 "inside joke" language (aka "superuser") is a bad idea. If the purpose of the T-shirt campaign is to draw as much attention from Joe / Jane Q. Public to the scandal, the something simple and to the point is best. Perhaps along the lines of bold block letters saying "Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet are RIGGED", perhaps with a little colorful button-style graphic that says "Ask me how" (like the buttons that Home Depot employees wear that says "Ask me for help..." or whatever).

If you had 500 people milling about the Rio poker room with those shirts on, I can't see how everyone wouldn't be talking about it by day's end. Sorry for the thread hijack. Great work Cornell Fiji.

In fact, this got me thinking about the following: how about custom UltimateBetCheats.com BUTTONS. Hear me out -- T-shirts are great and everything, but fact of the matter is there's gonna be a good portion of people who are gonna want to wear their own clothes, and not don some ill-fitting (or ugly) T-Shirt. Buttons, on the other hand, are much smaller, really really cheap to have made, and I can't see that anyone would have any objection to wearing one on whatever shirt they wanted to put on for a day or two of the WSOP. I think this type of campaign would get the most attention if everyone coordinated the t-shirt/button/whatever wearing on a single day, or hell - just wear it throughout the whole WSOP. Other advantages of buttons: they're super-cheap (just checking out this one site for example -- http://www.purebuttons.com/ -- I bet you could have big buttons with eye-catching ultimatebetcheats.com text for 50 cents / each or less (whereas T-shirts will cost 25x that much). Another advantage: not everyone would need to order their own, but someone in Vegas could literally just order a single big box of 1,000 buttons and hand them out to 2+2'ers or anyone else who wanted to join the cause.

I don't want to hijack this thread any more, so I'll close by saying that I think the only way this T-shirt or Button or whatever idea is going to go anywhere is if someone decides that they're going to spearhead the thing, and just takes it upon themself to make this happen. I won't be at the WSOP this year, but I think there are enough 2+2'ers who are spending the summer in Vegas that I hope a single person will just step up and say "I am going to make it my mission to make sure this UB awareness campaign sees the light of day". Will get off my soapbox for now.

Until then, I will continue to promote the UB brand because it is a brand I believe in and love and am deeply emotionally invested in.

joke of a human

you used to be able to Google Bomb terms and override the Page Rank system. Google has been working hard to stop this from happening in the future.

i do know that you tend to get Page Rank based on links and click throughs. thus all you (me?) bloggers out there need to link up to www.UltimateBetCheats.com. also, intra-linking between blogs will help in adding page rank. also, if you want to check on the update of this story, it would help to goto the URL rather than directly into the 2+2 Forum.

i am guessing a t-shirt design sold via Cafe Press or some other similar site would help.

You're absolutely right. Something accessible on the front and a url on the back seems ideal.

I liked Annie's post. I know you guys generally aren't fans of hers, but I do believe she'd like to see some justice come out of this. She benefits as much as anyone from poker maintaining a clean reputation.

I think if people feel strongly enough that their community shouldn't be cheated, they should organize a specific day to wear the shirts to get the most impact (such as Day 1b or 1c of the WSOP - day 1a would be too much of a circus, but it might be possible).

Like Toerazor said - imagine 500 2p2'ers walking around with identical shirts about the UB/AP cheating scandal.

Great post... I knew of the AP cheating scandal but didn't know UB had one too.
I've played at UB on and off again since 2003.. and though I've ran pretty good on the site (mostly through MTTs) .. I still wonder how many times I was cheated.

Shirt idea:

Absolute Poker is Totally Seif.

with a pic of the iranian general guy...

i see tons of people in this thread wanting to quit
wanting to withdraw
thinking all online sites cheat
etc etc
duke and hellmuth are both aware of this, why not try to solve it in a CONSTRUCTIVE manner instead of this awful way

Her post was total BS no matter what her intentions, she's better in not saying anything. In PR it is rarely right to comment when you are going to be a big loser.

I don't know Mark Seif or if he has any involvement in the AP scandal, but he did himself zero favours by talking and he practically indicted himself as a culprit with his comments.

I think Annie has a good reputation and there is no chance she is part in this or trying to cover up anything. She may have faults like all of us but acts of moral turpitude are certainly not her style.

So we should applaud her for taking the path most profitable to her?

You can't barter rationally with inherently irrational people.