let's be fair when we point out the plank in our brother's eye: as of their last issue, Bluff still runs huge AP and UB ads too.

Yep, back in March of 2008, those were the days when NVG used to be fun...

For now I've just updated the Wiki page with a one-line mention of the scandal and references from http://pokerworks.com/article-2173.html, and http://hardboiledpoker.blogspot.com/...ng-scheme.html. And within seconds my addition was deleted by "(BOT--Reverting edits by 76.67.60.104 to revision 208382518 (\bblogspot\.com" whatever that means.

tangentally, not trying to threadjack, what repercussions does this have for sites like Full Tilt, who still fly the flag of the Kahanawake as their gaming commission?

i would really like to see FTP move from the Kahanawake, which obv is nothing more than a shell/shill for theft.

hey FTP - you are being maligned by your associations. sure, you get credit for trout-slapping Jon Little, but c'mon. this is just another area where Poker Stars is a little bit ahead.

I totally agree. I just took the money that I had on FT and moved whole bankroll over to Pstars. There is no reason to even deal with this shady gaming commision when Pstars is reputable and safe. Why even take the risk.

Annie Duke post on the scandal.

just replace "UB brand" with "Bill Clinton".

this is what Hillary was saying after Bill got caught with his cigar in the wrong places.

there is no way Annie will be able to divorce (heh) herself from this and be objective. besides monetarily, she is wrapped up too much into UB as a whole.

F*** UB and AP

god its nice to find well written, analytic content on these issues.

I think this brings up some interesting thoughts.

As fun as it is to dismiss the "online poker is rigged" threads.
(We know that 99.99% of these threads are just people playing badly or running bad.)

Those in the past who have dismissed these threads with arguments such as
"the sites would never cheat because they make so much money and have too much to lose" are feeling a bit silly now.

Never underestimate the greed of people. Even the greed of those who already have a ton of cash.

The irony is that criminal greed often leads to smart people doing very stupid things to get caught.

Maybe they thought playing so few hands per account (name change) would lead people to dismiss as small sample sizes.

Just for chuckles lets assume we had a much smarter criminal who understands that his stats are always being looked at.
He would be able to crush any game while playing a completely normal looking style.
He could even play 25% super user and 75% normal. Although he would make a LOT of money it would be undetectable unless he has no grasp of poker concepts.

There is a (legal) play in blackjack called "hole carding"
Meaning by various different methods you have knowledge of the dealers
down card.
If you know the dealer has a ten value card in the hole and a ten value up its 100% correct to hit hard 19
The experienced HC doesnt do it at most places as it would draw extreme attention.
The HC can still get a ~10% edge vs and optimal ~13% without drawing attention with such plays.
He is willing to lose on these hands to keep playing.

My point is if a superuser knows his HHs are being looked at he could play in a way that he doesn`t fold big hands vs bigger hands but only loses small to make it look good.
He can raise bluffs with weak hands/draws that cannot under any situation call.
That looks pretty normal.

The good news is that the smart SU effects your overall winrate less.

IF your long term winrate is 3 BB/100 and colusion/cheating costs you 0.5BB/100, are you going to stop playing, probably not.

The players that are hurt the most are the marginal winners and small losers(small winners with rakeback and bonuses)

D.

For the sake of completeness I think that it is important to note that on October 19th, 2007, four days after the Potripper hand history file was discovered, Annie Duke was quoted in an interview as saying:

link


The post that entertainme linked to above was made 140 days after Ultimate Bet was publicly made aware of cheating on their site. It seems that Ms. Duke has a different definition of "steps up to the plate, acknowledges what has happened, and does the right thing" when her own financial self interest is involved.

she has no idea what she's talking about.
god job fiji!

Why would any poker magazine cover this when they are receiving advertising dollars from such these exact sites?

Money is the root of all evil.

Moreover, maybe someone who has contacts with BLUFF can somehow get UB off the TLB and BLUFF rankings to furthermore chastise this site; Not to mention dropping their marketing deals.

Why isnt this stickied!!?

Mod pissing contest.

Yeah sticky!

+1 for T-shirts I was going to say that.

It may be difficult/expensive for Hellmuth, Duke etc. to divorce themselves from Ultimate Bet, I don't know. It isn't much of an excuse, but while she is small beer by comparison, it puts them one step above the UK's Liv Boeree who signed up to represent Absolute Poker a few months after the Potripper scandal.

nice job OP.

can somebody please make t-shirts to wear at the wsop????

+1 we really need to come up with shirts to wear. Im sure someone on this site has graphic design knowledge. We just have to get past copyright laws to make sure we will be allowed to wear them. I cant wait to see someone sitting at Hellmuth's table wearing one of the shirts.

I played against STEAMROLLER, GREYCAT and DOUBLEDRAG. Should I have expected to receive some sort of refund from this? Should I be e-mailing Absolute about this? Have no played since scandal broke and did not know limit players possibly received refund. checked account and no money has been added.

Most gullible and dumbest person on the forum, congrats sir!

I have withdrawn my money from UB and AP. Thanks for the excellent summary.

Great post...
I had no idea that online poker...
Is offshore, unregulated, and beyond the reach of the law.

This is just a wild guess...
But I would think this type of business might be a fraud magnet...
And might attract people of less than stellar character.

tbh i think its more noticeable as a thread. people skip over the stickies naturally and its not like the thread won't get enough replies to keep it on page 1