Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread - Page 10 - Poker News

Pretty much yeah. They say the fix was published on December 16th (still unclear why they didn't ban moneytaker then?) but he was still playing more than a week after the "fix".

So I guess anyone else cheating in the same way is still doing it without problems?

I’m guessing they caught someone else doing it on 12/16 and didn’t even know about Moneytaker until the last few days

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12-29-2023 , 05:04 PM

#227

TripleBerryJam

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 488

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

Regarding client- or server side calculations of all-in EV, both of these options seem terribad to me:

1) Calculate server side. Either taking folded cards into account, or don't. Send to client prior to action ending.

2) Calculate server side. Taking folded cards into account. Send to client after action has ended.

The first one is obvious. Especially in the light of this scandal. That sort of sensitive, critical even, information has no business travelling over wires.

The second one is bad because it leaks information about other players' hole cards unnecessarily. And in the name of what - giving players a shiny and fun little percentage widget in the client?

The only reasonable way to go about this is to calculate client side, using only card information that has been revealed to the player. Consider an extreme example: It is three handed and the button opens. Small blind three bets, big blind four bet shoves. Button folds. Sb calls, holding JJ. Big blind holds AA and before the board runs out, a percentage is shown for either player. Would it not be terribly weird and bad if sb's odds were shown as 4.5% (rather than 19.5%) because button also folded JJ? For all JJ sb knows, they have 19.5% so what good could it possibly do anyone to show the redux number?

They offer insurance/cash out, due to card removal people could beat a low fee if that isn’t accounted for.

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12-29-2023 , 05:05 PM

#228

SelfishGhost

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dave_

Staggering ineptitude from GG to have this information in the client at all, and of course it is extremely unlikely this was a one-off.

"You should never trust the client" - It's the first rule of making an online game, let alone a freaking real money gambling site!

Playing there now is perhaps worse than playing on UB or Absolute post scandal. At least there it was an inside job with bad actors - this is a site seemingly without the first clue how to safeguard their gameplay, open to hacking by anyone who fancies a quick look at the network traffic! And holy ****, they patched the client but the superuser continued as they couldn't detect / prevent connections from a home made client?! And they "knew" by then, but didn't ban the cheater?!

The apology is awful too. I like how they push "Don't worry, he could never actually see your hole cards!" as if that makes it alright that they could see you were 2% to win on the turn.

Also, the blog about this is only on the US site - here in the UK when trying to click the links here, you're redirected to .co.uk version of the site which has no posts on this on their version of the blog. Probably the same applies in every other jurisdiction.

Add to this the fact there are people with 35bb/100 winrates at 500nl all with the same stats and same number of hands played, it shows GG doesn't really care about game integrity

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12-29-2023 , 05:05 PM

#229

J0hny

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,472

I think this is more serious than the AP scandal.

At AP an inside guy abused his power, which can happen at pretty much any site.

Here a 3rd party gained access, which has not happened before afaik.

This is a huge difference.

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12-29-2023 , 05:10 PM

#230

Helllsreal

adept

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 766

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardongear

*logs on to GG poker* Almost half a million players online playing right now. Easy win for Limon. Majority of poker players are freaking idiots there's no question about it. And the last sentence of his above comment on this page pretty much proves his point perfectly and I quote "If you’re playing in a grey market site you get what you deserve you idiots"

Not mention all the historic evidence proving the same thing...

People only bagging on Limon cause the truth always hurts.

Cheers!!!

You do realize that most recreational players do not read 2+2 and/or other poker forums/news?

Obv the majority is going to continue to play. If u really expected that because of this news, everyone is going to just stop playing on GG then maybe u are the real idiot here?

Last edited by Helllsreal; 12-29-2023 at 05:27 PM.

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12-29-2023 , 05:11 PM

#231

Anonimi

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 223

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_Druff

I’m guessing they caught someone else doing it on 12/16 and didn’t even know about Moneytaker until the last few days

So what about other people still doing it today? Just don't update the client and keep the party going?

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12-29-2023 , 05:13 PM

#232

AnfieldRoad

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleBerryJam

They offer insurance/cash out, due to card removal people could beat a low fee if that isn’t accounted for.

You mean due to collusion?

Seems like a weak argument either way to sacrifice some game integrity just so they find another avenue to collect money from the player collective.

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12-29-2023 , 05:14 PM

#233

p0ker_n00b

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,264

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfishGhost

Add to this the fact there are people with 35bb/100 winrates at 500nl all with the same stats and same number of hands played, it shows GG doesn't really care about game integrity

evidence of this? not saying ur wrong, just curious

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12-29-2023 , 05:18 PM

#234

SelfishGhost

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0ker_n00b

evidence of this? not saying ur wrong, just curious

There's a linked thread a few messages back with datamined hands of the biggest winner of this year at 500nl

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12-29-2023 , 05:18 PM

#235

TripleBerryJam

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 488

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

You mean due to collusion?

Seems like a weak argument either way to sacrifice some game integrity just so they find another avenue to collect money from the player collective.

No, in a 9max game for example when it folds to the SB, the SB will have more Ax hands because people generally fold aces less.

https://www.holdemresources.net/blog...ching-effects/

I don’t think it affects game integrity to know in rare spots that some of the other players folded a certain card.

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12-29-2023 , 05:19 PM

#236

david negus

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 612

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helllsreal

word travels fast, wait for mainstream media to pick this up. it hasnt even begun. its over for them

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12-29-2023 , 05:19 PM

#237

J0hny

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,472

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0ker_n00b

evidence of this? not saying ur wrong, just curious

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=5239

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12-29-2023 , 05:23 PM

#238

AnfieldRoad

veteran

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,461

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleBerryJam

Yes, I understand this effect. To reveal information about the holdings of players whose hands were never revealed quite obviously affects game integrity. One could argue that the effect is small of course but I certainly wouldn't agree.

I will be the first to admit I haven't done the maths when it comes to card removal due to the effect you describe, and insurance rates. But it seems unlikely to me that the effect can ever be big enough that the effect must be exploitable?

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12-29-2023 , 05:24 PM

#239

p0ker_n00b

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,264

Quote:

Originally Posted by J0hny

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=5239

maybe I need to eat my previous words **** me thats crazy

looks like maybe they keep opening new accounts, play 15k hands then retire the account, rinse repeat

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12-29-2023 , 05:26 PM

#240

brianhastings

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 66

Reminder to withdraw any funds on GG poker

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12-29-2023 , 05:27 PM

#241

jayme87

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,499

Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieKing

Hi ,

Just to SUM up things and my thoughts for what they are worth:

1. The main problem here is not the hack - he could see the EV and this is enough to know if you win or lose the hand. He did it by examining packets ... I wonder where he got this idea ;-). The main problem is the fact that GG was and still clueless about security status of their game and players. In perfectional cyber terms they lack the VISIBILITY they need to detect such things.

2. The community must demand FULL disclosure , unfortunately, I know for a fact that the pros and GG will try to burry this story , When i published my article some of the GG pros ( I will not name names , but i have the messages kept) asked me what +EV do I have from publishing such thing. I found it very strange and troubling ...

3. This player got caught thanks to the community and information sharing. If someone smart is still doing such cheats It will take a little bit more than just information sharing to catch...

These things will always happen, its almost impossible to fully protect such application. GG should disclose the full protection plan as well as what measures are being deployed on the fraud / cheat detection and why they did not work on that case.

Thanks ,
Eddie.

posting this as i know people will continue to overlook these statements but i have some ideas going forward. we need a site for the people built by the people. not some toad vemon licking psychdelic nutjob

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12-29-2023 , 05:28 PM

#242

J0hny

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,472

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0ker_n00b

maybe I need to eat my previous words **** me thats crazy

looks like maybe they keep opening new accounts, play 15k hands then retire the account, rinse repeat

I think they retire accounts when the PVI goes bad after winning, makes most sense.

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12-29-2023 , 05:28 PM

#243

Anonimi

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 223

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

But it seems unlikely to me that the effect can ever be big enough that the effect must be exploitable?

https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/s/sWDAEcUUk7

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12-29-2023 , 05:29 PM

#244

TripleBerryJam

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2023 Posts: 488

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0ker_n00b

maybe I need to eat my previous words **** me thats crazy

looks like maybe they keep opening new accounts, play 15k hands then retire the account, rinse repeat

From the original thread (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...olved-1825518/):

“Hi all!

"investigation" update: it turned out to be money laundering. at the table with these players almost always sat a weakly minus reg, who gave the heroes from the screenshots stack after stack (this fake reg also appeared for only a month). Against other regs they played terribly, I think they are easy to beat if you understand a little about the peculiarities of their strategy.”

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12-29-2023 , 05:37 PM

#245

JackSpratt

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Etruscan

But is he supersing on Stars as well? There in the middle i can see a couple of hands played on Stars

Are you an idiot or just a GG shill?

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12-29-2023 , 05:39 PM

#246

JackSpratt

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by botornot

Every smart poker client out there calculates the all-in odds client side.

Not BEFORE the cards are all in, which is exactly what the cheater needed to be the case in order to cheat. DUCY?

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12-29-2023 , 05:39 PM

#247

chiefsfan17

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,046

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackSpratt

Are you an idiot or just a GG shill?

He asked that because the HHs in the photos are GG hands converted to stars format to be read easier. and they literally say PokerStars hand # whatever That's probably not so obvious to everyone.

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12-29-2023 , 05:41 PM

#248

JackSpratt

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazzyB123

You're right, but how do GG get away with it?

Because players have known about it for years and don't care as long as the site is soft and doesn't do proper KYC. Absolutely nothing will come out of this case, it won't hurt GG at all. And that's sad.

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12-29-2023 , 05:45 PM

#249

SkillKill

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 114

Friends, when we talk about the clubGG app, are we talking about the same owners, does anyone have any information?
Miracles happen there, and if someone starts the topic to question the legitimacy of this or similar applications, it usually ends with the platitude "here we go again"...

I know a lot of regs, even of high stakes, and they are ashamed to start a discussion about this even among themselves (honor with some exceptions).

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12-29-2023 , 05:49 PM

#250

JackSpratt

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2023 Posts: 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forgotten_Username

Lurker here who decided to create an account to point out something not being mentioned here.. especially when it comes to confidence in GGPoker.

I think they effectively shot themselves in the foot with one sentence in particular:

"Additionally, we are actively recruiting to double the size of our technical security team and are enlisting help from renowned security professionals to ensure that online poker is safer than ever."

You are going to DOUBLE the size of your technical security team?! I interpret this one of two ways

1. Your technical security team is small and you're only taking action now because something was publicly identified. That means you willingly risked security and integrity in exchange for a healthier bottom line.

2. You didn't willingly risk security and integrity, so your technical security team is more than small. Doubling in size tells me you're worried about something else. Doing this isn't cheap, so why now?

Only my two cents.

Quoting this post because it needs more visiblity. This is absolute FACT, doubling to what 10 people from 5? Tell us how many you are hiring!. And lol at "renowned security professionals". Who is that, the dude from Catch Me if You Can? Name them or it's just another lie from Michael Kim.

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