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View Poll Results: After reading the article I think the Nevada Gaming Control Board will...
Side with the casino and invalidate the jackpot. 34 33.33%
Side with the players and rule that the jackpot should be paid. 68 66.67%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-14-2017, 05:13 AM   #1
doublejoker
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Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Seems like a technicality.
Details here ...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...poker-jackpot/
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:00 AM   #2
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Technicality? That's the rule in every room I've ever played in. Guy's a moron. I like how he's trying to blame the casino, when the rule is in writing on the wall.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:12 AM   #3
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

I can't fully deduce what happened from the article text

Was the hand still going on and they came to the river and the dude just flipped up his hand? Or were they all in previously and he flipped up his hand when the river hit? Or were they on the river and there was a check/check or bet/call and he showed the hand before the dealer asked?
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:16 AM   #4
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

It sounds like he flipped up his hand as soon as the river card came, when there was still action to come.

They don't explicitly say that, but if it was an all-in situation with no action possible, this would be nittery of an absurd degree.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:59 AM   #5
WhatsUpGuys
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

According to the rules they shouldnt payout the jackpot.
Im not saying i agree with the rules because i dont, they definately need to be changed
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:16 AM   #6
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Did no read the article, but as long as they pay out mincashes, you should be fine imo
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:53 AM   #7
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Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot

I was there a few hours after it happened. From all the information I gathered from people there when it happened including a guy that was at the table, this is what happened.

There was a raise preflop and multiway action.

Flop came K54 all clubs. Checked around. Turn 3 of clubs. Checked around. River Q of hearts.

The guy with the 76 of clubs turns his hand over and inquires if there enough money in the pot for another promotion, which was highest three hands of the hours for something like $200-$300 If I recall correctly.

Here are the things going for the players. There was more than enough in the pot to qualify for the bad beat. At Red Rock, you only need $10 in the pot. This happened on the river so the full board is completed. There is no specific rule that voids the jackpot if someone prematurely exposes their hand. The bad beat rules at the time says it MAY void the jackpot and basically leaves it to managementís discretion to allow or void the jackpot. Even the rule about talking about potential bad beat hands does not automatically void it. Once again, itís left to managementís discretion.

I donít think thereís one poker player anywhere that would be mad if this bad beat got paid out. The big reason is through whatever quirky accounting Stations was doing because this current bad beat hasnít been hit for months, the backup was actually HIGHER then the primary bad beat by a lot. The primary was like $120,000 and the backup was like $170,000.

Could be a landmark decision cause if the players win the case, Stations is on the hook for the $120,000+ payout. It wonít come out of the bad beat fund.
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:53 AM   #8
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

So basically sounds like he exposed his hand when the other guy still had the option of bet/cb on river and that is why they are not trying to pay him out?
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Old 12-14-2017, 10:19 AM   #9
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Did the 76 guy checked 3 streets in order to win highest hand bonus? i.e. If he bets and all fold he does not qualify. If so: It's a clear void on the badbeat jp
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:34 PM   #10
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Common sense:

!. If the winner had simply asked the dealer about jackpot or promo rules, without exposing his hand, then everything gets paid.

2. If exposing his hand causes the losing, lower straight flush to fold, or the lower straight flush folds for any other reason, then no one gets paid.

3. This was after the river was dealt. While there is no discussion of whether there was any betting or checking on the river, that is hardly significant in real world analysis. No one folded. Unclear who was to act first ....however, the winner would not have folded and the loser would likely not have folded in the event the winner had bet.

4. It is interesting that the winner's hand was not declared dead, just that the jackpot rules were violated.

5. There was no intent to influence anyone's play or communication regarding this jackpot during the hand.

6. It's not Station's money, aside from holding it to pay out to players.

The winner had ZERO to gain from his so called "communication", which was to the dealer btw.


I think Stations should be required to pay the jackpot. (I did not attend the hearing.)
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:40 PM   #11
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by youriw21 View Post
Did the 76 guy checked 3 streets in order to win highest hand bonus? i.e. If he bets and all fold he does not qualify. If so: It's a clear void on the badbeat jp
You seriously think if he bet something on the river the lower straight flush would have folded ? You think he would have put the guy on 76, instead of Kx ?
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:07 PM   #12
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

I would venture to say the poker room will have to pay it. The reason being they took $2 during that hand so the hand was bbj elgible. Poker rooms posts rules associated with bad beats but these rules normally aren't lottery approved...it's not like they were cheating to get the bad beat. They are probably legally entitled to the bad beat because the casino took the 1 or $2 for the jackpot.

Ive seen some poker rooms say rack on the table would void it. GTFO see you in court if that's the case.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:31 PM   #13
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

I emailed the writer of the article asking for clarification on what happened on the river: If the guy showed his hand before actions were complete or if he just didn't show in the prescribed order after actions completed. Got this, which seems so insane to me:

Quote:
The latter. All bets, calls completed and he showed out of prescribed order. Sorry if it seemed vague.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:01 PM   #14
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
I emailed the writer of the article asking for clarification on what happened on the river: If the guy showed his hand before actions were complete or if he just didn't show in the prescribed order after actions completed. Got this, which seems so insane to me:
The article is fairly confusing, and what he says in his response to you makes me wonder if he plays poker - nothing on hendon, but could obv play cash or just never ITM in a tournament. Does the author know what the action was on the river? He says all bets and calls completed, but from the article it really indicates that the player flipped his hand over right after the river was dealt

If 76 was last to act and he was not all in, then Station could prolly void the entire hand for not betting/raising with the nuts

How the money doesnt get in on the river, regardless of the positions, makes me think that there was still action to be completed

If it is a case of literately the "caller" showing his hand before the bettor/raiser showing his at showdown, which voided the hand, then thats redic - but again, 76 would have to be the caller, and he should have to be all in if only calling

Wonder what happens if Station do have to pay out, as not all names/details of all the players at all of the casinos would have been taken
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:15 PM   #15
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarrsouth View Post
The article is fairly confusing, and what he says in his response to you makes me wonder if he plays poker - nothing on hendon, but could obv play cash or just never ITM in a tournament.
lol. your post makes me wonder if you play poker.....or just tourneys.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:29 PM   #16
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

It does seem too bizzarre to be correct. Seems like there are three options here:

1. The writer does not understand poker and doesn't know what bets/calls etc imply and believes the action is over when the river is dealt

2. The writer had the story relayed to him in an incorrect way

3. The floor people at the casino are absolute madmen and should be fired
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:20 PM   #17
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Even with all the posts here in the thread I canīt figure out what has happened and what the rules are. Did this 76 guy flipped over the hand before action was completed and opeing your hand means your hand is dead? If that are the rules in this casino, bbj is void. I also dont understand how this got checked through. Also the other guy with A2s should have bet at some point!? I dont get it
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:35 PM   #18
WhatsUpGuys
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

I heard the dude flatted a 10 buck raise sitting on a 54 dollar stack with 67.
Dont pay him . Punish him for his poor play
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:39 PM   #19
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

The story I have heard repeatedly at the LV poker tables is that the guy exposed his hand out of turn and said "I need a call". Could just be a rumor, but it makes more sense than the above story.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:42 PM   #20
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Unbelievably bad decision making on the part of the casino here. Maybe a player got over excited with a huge nut hand. But straight flush against straight flush there is as near a 0% chance there is not a show down as you could ever get. The money is not coming out of the casinos pockets but they are definitely going to pay for the bad PR. Just wtf are they thinking?
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:44 PM   #21
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
It does seem too bizzarre to be correct. Seems like there are three options here:

1. The writer does not understand poker and doesn't know what bets/calls etc imply and believes the action is over when the river is dealt

2. The writer had the story relayed to him in an incorrect way

3. The floor people at the casino are absolute madmen and should be fired
All three options are probably correct.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:47 PM   #22
doublejoker
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

This is a station wide casino jackpot. How would they possibly pay all those players after the fact?
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:47 PM   #23
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Red Rock is by and large a very well run poker room on all counts in my experience.

The facts as given to us in this article seem quite incomplete, and even further muddled with the authors response to the email asking for clarification.

I have been involved in many jackpot hands over the last decade and in many different poker rooms. (Big share at Orleans, big and small share on multiple occasions at Talking Stick Resort in Scottsdale Az, big share in a privately run club in Arizona, and several table/room shares at Red Rock and Orleans).

I have seen 1 voided firsthand at my table when a player checked and called and had the losing hand that qualified for the jackpot (that he flashed to the table) then mucked it. The floor was present because there were three Aces on board (which is the rule at this particular casino, when three Aces are on board the action is halted, and the dealer must cal the floor over before allowing players to complete the action). The whole table gasped and yelled at the man to not muck as he did it, but alas it landed in the muck, and the floor snap ruled it an unretrievable mucked hand.

I heard of another one where there was a multiway pot and the action was not complete and a player exposed his hand to the table on the turn (he had quad AA) and all players in the hand still had money and river card and action to be completed, and then the river brought in a royal flush and the player who hit that hand then immediately showed it. So now, with multiple players in the hand, and no action yet performed on the river, both sides of the jackpot hand were face up and people celebrating. This is 100% stupidity on the players parts, and especially the guy exposing his hand on the turn. This jackpot was voided almost immediately as well. (Short deliberation behind closed doors I believe). Both of these voids occurred at an Indian casino, fwiw, and for amounts far below the 6 figures represented here in the stations situation.

All that said, there could very well be (and almost certainly has to be?) some missing information in order for me to side with and believe this jackpot shouldn't have happened or been paid.

As the facts have been presented to us, this jackpot indeed clearly should have been paid out. There isn't any good that comes out of this for Stations by taking the stand they are, and making it a public story either. The fact that they didn't just immediately (or after a short deliberation behind closed doors) rule in favor of the players to me basically says there was a major violation that is too heavily centered around collusion of some sort in Stations eyes, and thus they wanted no part in setting a precedent in BBJ eligible hands that could create future problems.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:49 PM   #24
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
This is a station wide casino jackpot. How would they possibly pay all those players after the fact?
According to the article they recorded the names of all eligible players before it was disqualified.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:49 PM   #25
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re: Stations casinos refuses to pay sf bad beat jackpot (poll added)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
This is a station wide casino jackpot. How would they possibly pay all those players after the fact?
according to the article you linked, a light lights up across the 5 dif casinos and the players at tables at that time have their info written down and get paid later after the jackpot is verified.
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