IMO stalling is the problem, not tanking. Even the old system of just calling clock addresses tanking fairly well, but when too many players start taking 30 seconds to make every decision to avoid giving off timing tells it ruins the experience of the game.

I would be in favor of something like a 10 second shot clock with something like 5 minutes worth of 30 second time bank chips to use as you wish throughout the tournament.

If you save your time bank chips for the bubble, more power to you. You're still not wasting any more than 5 minutes of everyones' time over the course of the tournament.

This would save alot more time than that.

The problem isn't tanking a few tough decisions it's *******s who try to stall their way into the money

If stalling is the main problem, it is only a problem at a few very specific and predictable points in a tournament.

It seems silly to implement a shot clock for every player for the entire tournament to fix this if it’s only an issue for a small fraction of it. This particular problem should be addressed within the structure of the tournament.

I'm not just talking about stalling on the money bubble. In the highest stakes tournaments it's relatively common for players to wait like 30 seconds before every action, presumably because if they act in 2 seconds with one hand and have to think for 20 seconds with another hand it could give other players a read about what portion of their range they're playing.

I admit that I tend to act very quickly in most instances (trying to get more hands in), and that 10 seconds as a standard could be too quick for some players.

Also I'm thinking more about preflop in high stakes tournaments where stalling seems to be the biggest problem, and where most players already have their preflop ranges pretty dialed in.

Honestly even in the midstakes tournaments I mostly play I have rarely had stalling or tanking be a huge issue. It's just a minor annoyance when you encounter the occasional habitual slow player.

Oh sure, though I wouldn’t really call this “stalling” but rather something like “time balancing” or just “time wasting”. “Stalling” kind of applies you are waiting for something.

But I agree that the shot clock used in a lot of high stakes tournaments now is a reasonable solution for this sort of slow play. It’s really only a few players who do it deliberately.

I'd say it takes him 10 seconds total every hand to squeeze and then act.

Assuming all you geniuses calling for 10 second shot clocks have never took longer than that on any decision ever. 20 seconds pre flop 30 seconds post seems fine.

I haven't taken more than a minute in at least a decade. I probably take 30 seconds 5 times a year.

I'm far from a genius. But at least I realize that unlike these dipshits who take forever play their hand who act like they're splitting the atom.

10 second shot clock games would be absolutely amazing.

Online players do just fine having to make quick decisions and it's not like decisions become tougher live. Not sure if you saw it but airball literally tanked half a freaking hour to make a trivial decision.

Yeah for you and i could live with a 10 second shot clock for nearly every decision as have seen most scenarios infinite times and probably play quicker than you. How do you think new players will enjoy being forced to act that quickly when each situation they encounter is new and can't auto pilot trivial spots for experienced players? Might as well say poker is a closed shop with such ridiculous time controls.

It goes both ways. How do you think recs feel about having wait 5 minutes+ for someone to play a hand

People who actually want to gamble and have fun would love it.
It wouldn't be a closed shop at all.

What's next a table with drinking and good conversation is bad for the game too?

A quick game is a good game.

If you play at a quicker pace than me I'd be impressed but that's awesome if true.

Bit of a contradiction you want 10 seconds shot clocks and everyone drinking and good conversation at the same time. Inebriated players aren't known as the quickest players and when is the time for conversation if you have next to no time to act? Good deal for you though bunch of drunk gamblers with 10 seconds to act and you who can make perfect decisions in 3 seconds i can see why this would appeal to you.

Was looking at the EPT monaco schedule today and came across this.

Time bank and shot clock rules

Time bank cards and the 30 second shot clock are to be used when genuine decisions need to be made
Players constantly running down the 30 seconds on the shot clock before making a decision will have their time bank cards removed and placed on a 5 second shot clock for each decision and could also face escalating penalties.

This makes perfect sense and i fully support this as the main problem around stalling and slow play is near the bubble.

You do get he was not making a decision but simply stalling to let people at other tables bust first. And that if the play was hand synchronized between the tables to try to avoid this he stalled EVERY table still going not just the one he was at.

There's a lot of disagreement about the particulars, but I think most people can at least agree that excessive tanking/ stalling is bad for the game? That being said we don't want the cure to be worse than the disease.

I don't see why more novel approaches can't be tested in a tournament or two to see what works and get feedback. Like the 10 second shot clock idea could be marketed as a special "speed hold em'" tournament. It doesn't have to appeal to everyone.

Run a few tournaments and see how they go, tweaking the rules as needed.

The big blind ante is something that comes to mind. There was a lot of push back and controversy when it was first introduced, but a few years later no one could imagine ever going back.

Idea: if someone takes a suspicious amount of time to fold pre, everyone has the right to see the folded cards after the hand. If it took 29.999 seconds to fold 72o UTG, a KITN is in order

Sounds great to me.

Right nothing wrong with some trial and error.
Id prefer a 10 second shot clock to what we have now my a mile. I think it would be awesome but do I think it would be perfect or even the ideal solution? Not particularly. Maybe 15 or 20 seconds would be better. And throw in some more discretion from the floor. When you're clearly just wasting time or strategically stalling you lose all time banks for all events.

I LOVE the idea of exposing someone's hand after a long tank. They have to give up some info for taking so long and you get to see if they're just wasting time tanking pre with j5 offsuit.

I don’t want to defend slow play in general, but decisions may very well be tougher live becasue you have a lot more information when you are playing live, since you can see your opponent, talk to them, see how they placed their chips, etc.

By far the biggest issues I have encounted with slow play have been in cash games with recreational players who for various reasons were not fully paying attention to the game. These players were definitely good for the game and would absolutely not have wanted to play a game with a shot clock.

(Of course, I’ve also never really played in super-high stakes tournaments where pros are acting slow every hand in order to balance the time they take on each decision.)

I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Why would he have stalled if the tables were playing hand-for-hand?

Also, the players who stall over tiny post-bubble pay jumps tend to be recreational players who are playing in tournaments where they are nervous and inexperienced. Brad was absolutely showing that he still has the mindset of a rec player in this situation. So the argument that rec players would love a shorter shot clock here is baffling to me; it would just make them feel even more uncomfortable and intimidated.

I've definitely seen this occasionally but by far my biggest issues with tanking have been with **** break evenish regs who just don't get live poker at all. I've rarely seen crushers or recs tank.

sure once in a while a red doesn't realize the action is on them.

Completely disagree. It's tourney grinders pulling this crap. Rec players aren't sitting there for 5 mins to act to get some minor pay jump.

drunk people making more mistakes is bad?