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Old 05-24-2017, 06:04 AM   #101
Krataman
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

people should have stopped playing on PS long time ago, they deserve to go bankrupt. I withdrew at the end of 2016 and will never come back. **** them
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:18 AM   #102
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05 View Post
You always could have gotten the $10 in cash and then if you wanted to, use $1 of the $10 that you got in cash to buy a lottery ticket for a shot at a big prize. Or you know, the whole $10 or however much of the $10 you wanted to spend to buy lottery ticket(s) for shot(s) at big prize(s).

Cash is cash. You can spend it on whatever you want.
!

Recs do ceteris paribus not gain anything by making rewards more gimmicky and randomized when the $EV of rewards is reduced within the process. It's imo good to make them more fun, colored and w/e ppl enjoy, a simple measure that does not hurt anyone (if u can turn non-$-value gimmicks off in stars software to not get annoyed) and potentially grows the player pool.
It's nothing else than a hidden rake increase. You can have more and/or bigger shots at huge prizes within the old system.

It is a short-term gain for Amaya, unclear how it will affect the platform longterm, imo reasonable to assume it will significantly decrease liquidity at mid/highstakes so reducing long-term rake / decreasing the rates at which it's paid. But we'll just have to wait and find out. Amaya already proved they are willing to rake a gametype unbeatibly high ("Beat (sic!) the Clock") and see how it develops. For reference there is a publicly available huge sample over which decently winning regs from other gametypes failed to beat BTC micro stakes rake. What this does is just killing poker, the game most of us love for having a skill factor, into a game with -ev for every participant like Roulette or Slot Machines. Fair to assume this doesn't help long-term traffic just imho. I'd not play a game where my very best perspective is to lose less than the other guys :/

Last edited by LeaksSuck; 05-24-2017 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:33 AM   #103
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

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Originally Posted by LeaksSuck View Post
For reference there is a publicly available huge sample over which decently winning regs from other gametypes failed to beat BTC micro stakes rake.
Could you link to this? Was away from poker and 2+2 when these games were introduced and these sample run.
Cheers
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:35 AM   #104
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...table-1639721/

Sample:

https://twitter.com/RaulGBlanco7/sta...ble-1639721%2F


Or as "Max Cut" put it:

"8.5bb adjusted start stack 4-max hyper zoom win explosion much wow"
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:37 AM   #105
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Nice one @LeaksSuck
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:46 AM   #106
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

No worries

"Daniel Negreanu‏ @RealKidPoker 28. Nov. 2016
Mehr
I like the structure as is, but agree the rake should be lowered by about half. Would be a WIN-WIN."

lol yeah, I'd like every ****ing structure that is reasonably beatable, but it's just not, what kind of argument is that?
If ppl like it, introduce 20 new poker variants with completely new rules, w/e helps the player pool and is fun to ppl, but rake them at a beatable %!
It doesn't even matter if this is achieved via reward system or pure modification of rake%, time/hands per level etc.
Poker being a game where ppl can make money and a decent % of the player pool actually does w/o hitting big prizes based on randomness is what keeps things going. No one wants to lose and if u design games s.t. everyone loses just the rates differ, it's gonna decline, your customers aren't all braindead.
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:50 AM   #107
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Jesus, they are ridiculous.

Exactly my thought after the first few posts in that thread;

"8.5bb adjusted start stack 4-max hyper zoom win explosion much wow"
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:45 AM   #108
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Thing is, they're not targeting the "poker crowd" anymore.
I might be wrong but I think they're changing their product from "gambling" to "social gaming", and it's only a step further to bigger changes coming.

"Social gaming" doesn't allow anybody to make money from it, instead people are invited to make "micro-transactions" in exchange of more "fun and goodies".
Poker isn't trendy at all anymore and they try to attract the younger generation by the same weapons huge gaming (not gambling related) companies use to make colossal profits nowadays.
They don't try to please serious poker players anymore, they're not a "poker provider" anymore, they're an "entertainment provider".
When you buy an "entertainment product" like a video game for example, you don't expect to make any money from it, and that's exactly the kind of product Amaya wants to sell.
On their product, winning at poker will just be the cherry on the cake, the "thrill that makes the game" but at no point a goal in itself.
With that being in mind, in my opinion it's pointless to talk about anything technical from a poker-financial standpoint since it doesn't matter anymore.

Some people need to radically change their view about how and why Amaya are doing all these changes.
They have a strategy that's for sure. I'm not saying this is the good one and only future will tell us, but I'm almost sure they plan to radically transform their product.

As a poker (in its pure form) lover, I'm obviously not pleased by all these changes and I don't try to defend them at all, I'm just trying to see the big picture.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:54 AM   #109
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Deal the cards and distribute the rewards fairly (true random), i am ok with any reward program.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:29 AM   #110
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

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Originally Posted by bazooka87 View Post
At what point are they going to offer a game where you pay 10% rake and high card wins?
I though that's called tournament poker. Hyachachachacha
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:32 AM   #111
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Yeah buying a company with millions of poker only players on debt and then trying to sell them new products that do not fulfill the main condition on why they were regging in the first place (everyone regged to win money, be it major or side reason) - sounds like a reasonable long-term strat. :thumbup:

Stars customers aren't idiots, if they don't get the products they want (beatable games that actually run), that's not gonna have good consequences in the long run. Ppl read news and if the changes are making poker at amayastars unbeatable in the end, the word will spread.

What about the option to have beatable rake structures and introducing social gaming gimmicks and all these things ppl are willing to pay for? Sounds way more reasonable to me if the perspective is further than next few quarter's financial statements. Obv increasing rake thru a hidden randomized reward system will push short-term earnings, that's causing the trouble imho.

Last edited by LeaksSuck; 05-24-2017 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 10:50 AM   #112
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Had a look to see how many VPPs i need to get to the next level and they have now removed the progress bar altogether so looks like this is happening 1st June for us in the UK at least.
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:00 PM   #113
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

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Originally Posted by RecreationalPlayer View Post
So many business analysts in this thread.

Ive said it before, Pokerstars doesn't care about regs. She left you, she's banging someone else now, time to move on. Stop standing outside the house and go home. Its sad really. The fact that you're all still emotionally struggling to accept the situation just shows you would be crap at business.
LMAO! Single best summation of this situation I have seen yet.
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:01 PM   #114
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

The new rewards system just got added to my client. I'm from Denmark fwiw.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:04 PM   #115
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Yup, went live in Denmark today. Six tiers of Chests (inc bronze, silver, platinum like the old rewards tiers) that you progress through if you can unlock four in a day. Top prizes are $100 to $1000 with random bigger prizes. They published the pay table for each Chest, they work out at worth a few cents on average at the low end, to around $20 for Platinum unlocks.

Speed of progress however is personalized (based on play history and # of deposits) so only after a while will anyone get an impression of their unlock rates.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:19 PM   #116
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
Speed of progress however is personalized (based on play history and # of deposits) so only after a while will anyone get an impression of their unlock rates.
That is the shadiest part of their new rewards program. I hope PartyPoker can step it up!
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:43 PM   #117
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

I used to be very upset at Stars departure from the US market.

With the changes over the last few years, I see that I am not missing as much as I thought.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:45 PM   #118
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
Yup, went live in Denmark today. Six tiers of Chests (inc bronze, silver, platinum like the old rewards tiers) that you progress through if you can unlock four in a day. Top prizes are $100 to $1000 with random bigger prizes. They published the pay table for each Chest, they work out at worth a few cents on average at the low end, to around $20 for Platinum unlocks.

Speed of progress however is personalized (based on play history and # of deposits) so only after a while will anyone get an impression of their unlock rates.
I guess we will all have to deposit $10 a day. Sweet. Do you have a link to the Danish chest page?
Quote:
Frequency Red chest Blue chest bronze Chest silver Chest Gold Chest platinum Chest
1 out of 10,000 $ 100 $ 100 $ 500 $ 500 $ 1,000 $ 1,000
200 out of 10,000 $ 0.75 $ 2.25 $ 6 $ 16 $ 42 $ 130
400 out of 10,000 $ 0.45 $ 1.25 $ 3.65 $ 9.75 $ 25 $ 78
700 out of 10,000 $ 0.15 $ 0.50 $ 1.25 $ 3.25 $ 8.50 $ 26
1,000 out of 10,000 $ 0.13 $ 0.45 $ 1.10 $ 3 $ 7.50 $ 23
1,400 out of 10,000 $ 0.10 $ 0.35 $ 0.85 $ 2.25 $ 6 $ 18
2,800 out of 10,000 $ 0.9 $ 0.30 $ 0.75 $ 2 $ 5 $ 16
3,499 out of 10,000 $ 0.7 $ 0.25 $ 0.60 $ 1.60 $ 4.20 $ 13
wtf? you literally have a 1 in 10000 chance of your chest being worth anything

Also their page is wrong. It says bottom two red rewards are 0.9/0.7 and should be 0.09/0.07 I think.

Last edited by micro dong; 05-24-2017 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:56 PM   #119
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

translated stars Denmark page:
https://translate.google.com/transla...s%2F&sandbox=1

stars rewards FAQ:
https://translate.google.com/transla...wards%2Ffaq%2F
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:53 PM   #120
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

PokerStars already does human translations

https://www.pokerstars.dk/en/stars-rewards/
https://www.pokerstars.dk/en/stars-rewards/faq/
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:57 PM   #121
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Quote:
Originally Posted by micro dong View Post
I guess we will all have to deposit $10 a day. Sweet. Do you have a link to the Danish chest page?wtf? you literally have a 1 in 10000 chance of your chest being worth anything

Also their page is wrong. It says bottom two red rewards are 0.9/0.7 and should be 0.09/0.07 I think.
Neither FAQ page has that error from what I can tell; they correctly say 0.09 and 0.07.

In case anyone is interested:



Given that you progress if you complete four in a day, then presumably doing 4x up to (but maybe not including) platinum is going to be "do-able" for most players within a day's play session. NB payouts dont include the random "big prizes".
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:58 PM   #122
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

whoops forgot about that
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Old 05-24-2017, 05:01 PM   #123
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Quote:
Originally Posted by micro dong View Post
I guess we will all have to deposit $10 a day. Sweet. Do you have a link to the Danish chest page?wtf? you literally have a 1 in 10000 chance of your chest being worth anything

Also their page is wrong. It says bottom two red rewards are 0.9/0.7 and should be 0.09/0.07 I think.
so what they meant by ''up to 85% decrease in rb'' is if you run poorly with your chests ? or is it that all level are capped at 4 chests so if you open 4 chests of the highest tier you wont get anymore chest for the day ?

Anyway im not gonna lie all this **** is ****ing ******ed. No idea whats the point of putting variance in rakeback especially if there's no other prices than cash. I wouldve get it if there was trips, tournet tickets, merchandise, etc but it's not the case it's just extremely lazy and annoying. The fish wont get anymore than they used to and it's gonna just make the reg's livelihood more risky.

I assume the boost will happen more often when youre a net depositor or something... lol
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Old 05-24-2017, 05:05 PM   #124
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
Neither FAQ page has that error from what I can tell; they correctly say 0.09 and 0.07.

In case anyone is interested:



Given that you progress if you complete four in a day, then presumably doing 4x up to (but maybe not including) platinum is going to be "do-able" for most players within a day's play session. NB payouts dont include the random "big prizes".
do we know how much is required get a chest ? without that piece of info, that graph is pretty useless
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Old 05-24-2017, 05:09 PM   #125
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Re: Stars confirms new rewards program: Chests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood View Post
Yup, went live in Denmark today. Six tiers of Chests (inc bronze, silver, platinum like the old rewards tiers) that you progress through if you can unlock four in a day. Top prizes are $100 to $1000 with random bigger prizes. They published the pay table for each Chest, they work out at worth a few cents on average at the low end, to around $20 for Platinum unlocks.

Speed of progress however is personalized (based on play history and # of deposits) so only after a while will anyone get an impression of their unlock rates.
Did i read that right, we have to pay $ to unlock the chest? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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