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BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? BANNED from PokerStars for being too good?

03-12-2024 , 09:01 PM
PSA: This is not a bash PokerStars thread, I am just trying to get more clarification on my case.

TLDR: Played on this site for 7 years, 4 years as a VIP member. Got banned but was able to withdraw my funds because they had no proof that I broke any terms of service.

BACKGROUND: Deposited ~ 7 years ago while I was in University. Started playing 50nl/100nl zoom when I was working a full time accounting job. Ended up pursuing minor professional hockey in the USA which is what I have been doing for the past 5 years and playing Poker mainly during the off-season or sometimes in the spring months if my season ended early. I will share my results from 2021-2023 as it gives better insight on my game, I will just share my volume played on PokerStars (some hands might be missing as my HM3 corrupted a few times).

2021 (Global Pool):



2022 (Ring Fenced Pool)

As you can see I didn't put any volume into Stars during 2022 (this was all that I had in my database). I thought I remember putting some volume in at 100/200nl on Stars during 2022 but I can't find it in my database.



2023 (Ring Fenced Pool)



2024 (Ring Fenced Pool)



INVESTIGATION:

Here begins the investigation where I will be sharing the e-mails they sent me as well as some of my responses (not all). The timeline of my account freezing is this - I leave to USA during mid October 2023 to start my hockey season. I come home ~Feb 10th 2024 and play for 3 days when my account gets frozen on Feb 13th 2024. First off, very suspicious that my account gets frozen after 3 days of playing and approximately 3000 hands played.

EMAIL #1

My response to this email was no to every question and I told them I use HM3, StarsHelper, and PIOsolver. I didn't add GTOwizard as it's not really a downloadable software but after re-reading the question they asked I should have included this. The question about my playing style changing I told them I just came back after ~5 months of being abroad and my interaction with the software stayed the same.



EMAIL#2

So I don't feel the need to upload the 3 hours of footage of me playing but I sent them what they wanted. I had to go out and buy a new webcam and webcam holder as well. For those wondering there is 0 possibility of cheating during this liveplay recording with the way the cameras are positioned.



EMAIL#3

So i then receive this e-mail and obviously I am in shock. I respond to this e-mail with a nice response asking for more clarification and I got a copy pasted response. I then sent an e-mail stating I am making this case public and that it was a malicious attempt to ban a player making money on their platform. They then sent the investigation off to the manager of the game integrity team.



EMAIL #4



INVESTIGATION FINDINGS

My belief is that my account got flagged in 2023 and they were waiting for me to re-deposit to freeze my account. The ~3000 hands I played in 2024 ment nothing and my account was already flagged before this. The whole investigation was a joke, they found nothing and they were not looking for anything. It was my belief that I was banned before this investigation even started, they just wasted a month of my time.

BONUS INFO

Going off of my investigation findings I thought of something that may or may not be a coincidence. As a VIP member Stars would always send gifts to your house for the holidays. For three out of the four years I received gifts and the year I did not receive a gift was this most recent year (2023 holidays). This further strengthens my point of my account being flagged in 2023 and the 2024 hands and the investigation meaning nothing.

BONUS INFO #2

Based off the wording they used in their email as well as this article descrbing RTA and the PokerStars game integrity team, I believe they falsely banned me for RTA use. https://www.pokerstars.com/poker/lea...ce-pokerstars/

There is a quote I have from the article that is interesting - "Some only when there’s significant EV on the line or when it’s a difficult decision." Of course I am reaching a bit but I believe I know the hand that I played which got me falsely banned for using RTA. I am sure it is no secret to their algorithms and AI that they are aware that over the millions of hands i've played on Stars I overfold the river. I put a lot of work in and even started to work on my heads up game as battling heads up was something that interested me. Here is the hand I played vs. a tough reg at 2/5 that I believe got me banned, either by them picking it up via their detection software or the Reg reporting me ( I read an article that 95% of RTA catches are from their AI and 5% is from real-player reporting).

HAND IN QUESTION?

Obviously reaching a bit by stating that this is the hand in particular which raised there suspicion but it's the only one that comes to mind as its a heads up pot and I tanked the river forever. Oddly enough after the session ended and I looked up the solution I would have pure folded this in game if I knew that villain was supposed to be value-betting AT+ (which is not very intuitive on this runout).

    PokerStars - C$5 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 2 players
    Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

    SB: CA$712.85 (142.6 bb)
    Hero (BB): CA$606.92 (121.4 bb)

    SB posts CA$2.50, Hero posts BB CA$5.00

    Pre Flop: (pot: CA$7.50) Hero has T J
    SB raises to CA$12.50, Hero calls CA$7.50

    Flop: (CA$25.00, 2 players) T 2 8
    Hero checks, SB bets CA$30.00, Hero calls CA$30.00

    Turn: (CA$85.00, 2 players) 4
    Hero checks, SB bets CA$125.25, Hero calls CA$125.25

    River: (CA$335.50, 2 players) 5
    Hero checks, SB bets CA$545.10 and is all-in, Hero calls CA$439.17 and is all-in

    Results: CA$1,213.84 pot (CA$1.75 rake)
    Final Board: T 2 8 4 5

    SB shows 7 J: (High Card, Jack)
    (Pre 28%, Flop 15%, Turn 9%)

    Hero shows T J: (One Pair, Tens)
    (Pre 72%, Flop 85%, Turn 91%)

    Hero wins CA$1,212.09


    SOLUTION

    Villain



    Hero

    Quote:
    CONCLUSION

    I was wrongly banned for using RTA when I never did. PSA - make sure you don't get too good at this game or you will be banned, just be good enough not too good. Also, if you do get good just start a stream or make YouTube videos and create a following so Stars will be less inclined to ban you. Peace.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 03:32 AM
    LOL. Yeah use rta get caught blame stars because you are just too good. ROFL Btw I didn't even read it just scimmed to the end. LOOOL.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 11:35 AM
    FYI.: Well they don't need a reason to BAN you at all. As long as you got your funds then they are 100% in their right to refuse you as a customer.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 01:50 PM
    You didn't get banned for playing too good. You got a security check for playing too good. You got banned when your play differed significantly in a recorded session.

    You got banned for playing poorly.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 01:56 PM
    How does any of this even make sense to OP. He's won 40k in 3 years. How is that too much?
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 02:04 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by valuecutting
    You didn't get banned for playing too good. You got a security check for playing too good. You got banned when your play differed significantly in a recorded session.

    You got banned for playing poorly.
    Ridiculous to think a 3 hour session is a good sample size to say anything about. Also ridiculous to think RTA is a possibility when 90% of my volume is 6-9 tabling multiple sites. Also ridiculous to think that a winning player would be dumb enough to think that RTAing a spot would help them make the highest EV decision.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by InfiniteLand23456
    How does any of this even make sense to OP. He's won 40k in 3 years. How is that too much?
    If you read the background you can see that I am not a full-time player and these results are just on PokerStars.

    Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-14-2024 at 06:11 AM. Reason: 2 posts merged
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 02:13 PM
    Love how the hh is literally an RTA highlight lmao
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 02:18 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MDMASherdog
    Love how the hh is literally an RTA highlight lmao
    Yes both players played it identical to solver if that's what your alluding too. Like I mentioned in the hand breakdown I would have folded this in-game if I RTAed it as in-game my thought process of combos did not include villain being able to shove AT+ for value.

    Last edited by TooGoodforStars; 03-13-2024 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Gave better response
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 03:30 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TooGoodforStars
    If you read the background you can see that I am not a full-time player and these results are just on PokerStars.
    I don't think you get the point. 40k over 3 years isn't exactly beans, but also it's beans. PS most definitely does not care about you winning 40k in 3 years.

    You most likely cheated(RTA) and got caught. It also makes sense for them to see a huge discrepancy between your recorded play and your ''usual'' play but not be able to prove you're cheating.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-13-2024 , 04:31 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by InfiniteLand23456
    I don't think you get the point. 40k over 3 years isn't exactly beans, but also it's beans. PS most definitely does not care about you winning 40k in 3 years.

    You most likely cheated(RTA) and got caught. It also makes sense for them to see a huge discrepancy between your recorded play and your ''usual'' play but not be able to prove you're cheating.
    Firstly, the point of this post was to create a background story and get into the mind of someone who would and wouldn't cheat at online poker and let the viewer use their critical thinking skills. A cheater does not have full-time job responsibilities, grind for 7 years on your platform, have a winrate in one of the tougher online cash pools (1/2 zoom), and then wake up one day and decide that they are going to RTA a spot. Cheaters have a history of cheating and are often losing/breakeven players to begin with. Secondly, I already compared the statistics of the hands I played in 2024 (around 3000 before account freeze and around 3000 during the videos I sent them) to the statistics of my previous years and also volume on other sites. Not shocking at all was that the statistics are identical as well as the open/3bet/4bet sizes used. This was a botched investigation by an incompetent game integrity team. Let's not forget that someone woke up one day, went to work at the PokerStars office, got paid a salary, then banned a player who neither had a history of cheating or any proof that they cheated. Well done.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-14-2024 , 05:31 AM
    Are we in some kind of a bizarro world when just pressing "check/call" with top pair every time it's on you is proof of cheating now? Especially if solver actually folds river and the player didn't
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-14-2024 , 12:11 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vanhaomena
    Are we in some kind of a bizarro world when just pressing "check/call" with top pair every time it's on you is proof of cheating now? Especially if solver actually folds river and the player didn't
    Yes it is ridiculous. I don't know if this is the hand or why I even got banned to begin with. However, I filtered my 2023 database for river spots >20 BB and this was the only hand that came to mind as it was HU, I tanked river, and I remember it was late on a Friday or Saturday and I was only playing 2-3 tables as there was no action.

    I highly recommend for anybody playing on this platform who has a good winrate to stream or post YouTube videos at least once a month, preferably showing your face, so you don't get falsely banned.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-15-2024 , 10:45 AM
    I don’t think you cheated based on you deciding to make your defence the way you did.

    But I expect you won’t change anything from this, if pokerstars found the play potentially suspicious and have decided to ban you, they aren’t going to change their mind because you made a forum post
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-15-2024 , 10:57 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vanhaomena
    Are we in some kind of a bizarro world when just pressing "check/call" with top pair every time it's on you is proof of cheating now? Especially if solver actually folds river and the player didn't
    You do realize the posted hand is absolutely nothing but a distraction right? No one but OP referred to the hand and the only thing he bases it on is ''I tanked the river forever''.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    03-15-2024 , 12:29 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by InfiniteLand23456
    You do realize the posted hand is absolutely nothing but a distraction right? No one but OP referred to the hand and the only thing he bases it on is ''I tanked the river forever''.
    It's a distraction to what exactly? Nobody said this was the hand that got my account flagged, I already said its purely speculation. I also based it on more than one factor - playing less than normal tables, playing HU, river tank.
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote
    04-03-2024 , 07:08 AM
    Those screenshots look shady to me
    BANNED from PokerStars for being too good? Quote

          
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