He's just selling the benefits of a reduced top heavy VIP program that's going to be implemented next year. Therefore rest assured he's still towing the company line disguised as his own thoughts.

It's like someone starting a petition to get a TV show banned instead of just not watching it.

In before VIP program gets drastically reduced next year.

Recs, fishes, donks w\e you want to call them dont care about rake obv. but the average 'decent' player does and even he cant sustain the rake. And to ppl saying if you dont like the rake and the games stars puts forward then just 'don't play' . well thats exactly what alot of ppl are actually doin'. Its sad for the game but its getting less fun or even worth playing for more and more players.

Obviously stars will side with the spinNgo. If numbers are correct and 7.5 million have been played, there's little to no chance of it being changed.

Poker is and should always be about keeping the "fun" recreational players happy, pro players should be able to adapt in some way by playing different games to keep their volume up or win rate up. I'm sure spin and goes will of attracted a TON more new players to the game, all of which will be visiting cash/tournaments/SnG's alike at some point after the novelty of playing the spin and go's disappear so ultimately they will be giving more money into the poker economy at some point.

I think having SpinNGo's is a good thing, overall the same as I'm hopeful casino games are offered at some point on pokerstars. I've played like around 100 of these games so far and I've yet to find anyone who wasn't recreational. Sure the rake isn't ideal, not idea how beatable they are with that in mind..but playing a few on the side as your normal grind can't be a bad thing.

Bull****. What site are you going to move to? No site has any where even close to the traffic stars has.

DNegs is spot on and SpinNGo's are awesome.

Bottom line is despite the massive variance they are still a game of skill and you can get a long term edge at them as a reg. Anyone who went into being a poker pro and expected everything handed to them on a plate deserves this wake up call. You have to learn to adapt, handle real variance and move with the times playing poker for a living. You are not entitled to have everything the way you want it.

Fun concept. Too bad the variance is gonna be absolutely insane. Hello 2+ year downswings xD

DNegs has some valid points but embellishes and oversimplifies in order to make a neat sounding post that is digestible by a majority of 2+2 NVG readers. Can't fault him *too* much for that I guess.

Anyone brushing away the concern raised by this petition with statements like adapt and learn to handle real variance likely have a very weak understanding of the variance and what it means.

Players can raise concerns without feeling entitled.

We are getting paid by the SNE's to sign this petition?, because i dont see how normal players would agree with this. The petition is addressed only to SNE players, because i just cant understand how normal players would benefit from this?

It's kind of useless to start a petition, and for the wrong reasons. Same story with people complaining sites like FT adding some slots and videopoker and stuff. Instead of being against it because that's pure gambling the whole discussion was about that they took players from your tables. Some seem so entitled to take away cash from recreational players and when that changes temporary or for the long time, deal with it. Go play vs. other regs if you are all so skilled and make a living of it. There is always something like actual work as a backup....

Bad sign when pokerstars is stealing ideas from ipoker.

Ah, I misread the rules and thought 2nd and 3rd got 10% of prizepool every game:



Juk

Already happened. "Everytime i hit one of the lowest prizepools, rigged!"

I think these might be good think for midstake games. Instead of depositing 50$ and slowly losing it at NL10 or something recs have chance to win bigger and then donk at least some of it back to higher levels because they've now solved poker.

I understand why sng-pros are against this but supply and demand.

Winamax were first, I think.

he didn't say that. obv PS makes tons of money, but is also obv, that PS has to pay a lot to keep the company running.

party cancelled the vip program and highstakes action, b/c regs took the money too fast out of the system. so it's no big secret, that regs are a 'negative factor'.

while the golden age of online poker, the money flew in and every poker room tried to get regs w/ good vip programs ... nowadays the focus is on the recreational players ... that's the reason, we have all these social gaming components.

but just my 2cts

[x] Addictive
[x] Ungrindable
[x] Overraked
[x] Bad for eco system
[x] Steals traffic
[x] Pisses off people who actually play for a living and are not "advertisement pros"

How many people do you think made an account in hopes of one day making a living playing it? I did, i know most of my friends did.
I think we are killing it only in a way that we got to a level where we are "killing" and actually making a living, grinding, not binking lottery.

Games attract new fish and its good, but it mostly attracts fish who are already on the site.

Make smaller top prizes or cap the buyins at 7$ imo.

all would be fine if they introduced spin n goes 1st January , now , as Rusemandingo said they scum all of us(SNE grinders) , that's not fair when you reach 700k VPP's and they fkd u up 3months before you complete your chase...

http://www.pokertableratings.com/top-countries-alltime

Sum of all positive values in net column (ie: winning players' profit) = $16,399,541
Sum of all negative values in net column (ie: site profit) = -$1,244,799,762

= The sites took ~76x more of losing players' deposits than winning players did.

Juk

Blizzard Entertainment have to pay a lot to keep their company running too...

I suspect that if a poker site were to run WoW (or any other MMO) then instead of $30/month in fees you'd be looking at $5k/month minimum.

Juk

+1

Variance keeps the fish happy and bothers the regs. Is there anything more to know?

I have no sympathy for SNE grinders who are losing action cos of this. Whenever there are threads that are in some part from the perspective of the recreational/micro stakes player there's never much or any support from the guys up top grinding for the big bonuses. Folks say poker is a selfish pursuit...fair enough, but i always felt as players we are one...and often times there are issues that affect the guys at the bottom more than the guys at the top...and it helps when the guys at the top speak up for the guys at the bottom...it can't hurt anyway...

Well this time around, it seems the guys at the top (some of em anyway) are getting hurt...losing action...poor wee things. That Stars couldn't wait until January to implement this...how could they be so mean to those grinders? Those grinders who give so much back to the game and the community, who deserve the loyal support of Pokerstars HQ, cos they keep the site going they do, generating all that rake. It almost seems like Stars has turned on them...how could they?

Didn't Seidel once say, in the end all the money goes to Ivey. I'd say, in the end all the money goes to Pokerstars.

That's what I'm talking about!
Dnegs has - again - clearly been full of ****.
Time to stop posting, you clueless CC-cutup.

thanks a lot, Juk



BTW, I don't care about having or not having those SnG's at all

I can't help but overall laugh at Dnegs, I think it was max cut a page or 2 back that said he over simplified his post for the typical NVG reader. I totally agree with that statement.

Also big laugh that you would suggest killing the people who fight for your company politically to even be allowed in their countries. Keep it up like I said and you'll burn too many bridges you will be left with a narrow choice.

I get so sick of people like Daniel and their views on how they would do things if they were in charge. That's why you are not in charge Daniel, you're nothing more than a guy to be a face of a site. You are not stable enough to run a company for decades. Sorry bud, you're an intelligent man, but you are rather unstable at times and that's your downfall.

How do you get a group of people to fight for a company if you kill them and make it 100% recreational friendly? It's not possible. Also if you make it not reg friendly, you're going to kill the site regardless, maybe not fast, but slowly, it will die.


Keep on keepn on buddy boy, you're Danel, you know it all.

If someone didn't saw this big petition on Tiltbook, pls fallow the link and read and sent a mail. A lot of player do this, so I think its ok to send that mail to Pokerstars.

Link for the petition:
http://tiltbook.com/masuronike/blog/...o-tournaments/