This. People feel entitled to something for some reason.

and if/when all the fish $ are diverted to a format you and perhaps noone else can realistically hope to rely on for silly things we tend to overvalue like year to year income, you adapt yourself into what we used to call back in the day 'a real job'

Seems unfair to introduce this at the end of the year given VIP program and also very short-sighted.

why does stars need a vip program anymore? they no longer need regs for liquidity (doesnt take many players to start a 3 handed casino game)



im looking foreward to streaming the Spin N Go event at next years WSOP

personally i love them. theyre like lotto scratch offs that are slightly +ev so i dont feel bad about it and theyre fun to play.

i get why it sucks for sng pros tho

No **** you adapt, I've adapted my whole life, so has everyone in this world.

Change sucks when it's unexpected and that's why a lot of people are pissed.

I'm pissed for that and plenty other reasons of how amaya/stars has handled things in recent months. I don't respect them one bit and the star reps that post on this site.

I get so sick of people talking about SNGs and they have never even been a part of the community. Have you seen how stars has handled themselves about adding other formats/fixing old ones? They are nothing more than a hypocritical company who is out to rob the general public. They don't care about anyone, they care about their pockets. That's obvious not needed to be said, but to some, maybe they don't see how stars/amaya is.

Of course they don't ****ing owe anyone, but when you piss off a good % of your company, you certainly are going to hear it. You wont see me defending pokerstars being allowed in my country and I could see similar people jumping ship as well..

Burn too many bridges, you'll be left with a narrow choice.

slightly +ev now, or slightly +ev in 3 months when the games normalize?

and cash game traffic is apparently down almost 10%, not just sngs being affected?

so it sucks to be a sng pro or a cash pro relative to pre SpinNgo? .....


First they came...

Nobody is forcing you to play on Stars. If you don't like their site/rake model/etc you're free to play elsewhere.

You are a customer, not an employee. If you don't like how they do business then vote with your wallet and play elsewhere.

Recreational players make up the bulk of the player pool, not regs.

not in 180s, zoom higher than a certain level, HU cash, im sure at least a couple more formats

They are fun when buzzing

well yea because you are cherry picking formats. He is speaking in general, in general recreational players make up the bulk of the player base.

Since you are going to nitpick let me re-state what should have been obvious. At the most commonly played stakes, recreationals greatly outnumber regs. Obviously the reg/rec ratio increases as the stakes increase. No surprise there unless you expect 5knl to have the same amount of recs as 5nl.

Available here: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/spin...utm_campaign=1

EV = P(1st)*2.863 + (1-P(1st))*0.0085

GTFO they aren't persecuting minorities, just offering a wider selection of voluntary games.

what about the spin and go regs? they have a voice to you know. its not fair that the whole stars world wants to take their games away imo.

blood-thirsty sharks are the only ones mad about spin and go's being offered? color me shocked!

I think this has been in the works for a lot longer than you think and I highly doubt that it was just introduced with Amaya's involvement.

As far as the format, I doubt it's going anywhere. It's great for folks who want to have a shot at a huge prize pool and overall a fun format. I can see why this wouldn't be great for regs, but that's not really the priority of PS.

The nosedive after the ownership change begins...

my comment = as nitpicky as your 5k nl comment = facetious?

noone itt is discussing 5 nl so for argument sake why dont we change your claim to:
and now defend its validity



every buyin of 180man has about half the seats filled with regs
zoom 100 i think is the lowest buyin level where there are more regs than recs
every stake of hu cash is reg infested simply waiting on recs
im out of my depth but id be suprised if every buyin of 6m and FR nlhe above 200nl would likely be more regs than recs and maybe its 100
any small field (non flagship) mtt $55+ is more regs than recs

i dont doubt theres alot more variants/formats/stakes that follow the same pattern

The seats occupied by regs do outnumber those occupied by recs because the former multitable and the latter seldom do (or play up to 4 tables). But active rec accounts outnumber those of regs. Most probably total net rake paid by recs also exceeds that of regs because the former play looser (generate twice more contributed rake) and have lower VIP statuses. Leave alone that the former are usually net depositors and the latter usually aren't. So Stars aren't that wrong in catering to recs' interests foremost.

But as Craggoo apparently meant seats, yes, he's wrong about the ratio.

Before this, milestone hands and SNGs with randomly added prizes promo were a success. I get why this sucks for especially SNG pros, but I cant see why companies shouldnt offer games obviously in demand. I think they are great fun and much softer than classic SNGs. Good pros should be able to adapt into whatever games that runs.

this view is so self-serving and typical of SNE's who are such a miniscule minority of Pokerstars clientele including the huge volume of rake they'll argue they're generating to keep Pokerstars alive.

Pokerstars, to 99% of its clientele, is just a fun gaming site. The fact that a small majority of customers have decided to make a living out of it is just a small bonus to Pokerstars. Someone's probably done the numbers but I'm sure the amount of rake generated by SNE's makes far less impact on Pokerstars bottom line than SNE's will have you believe. The guy who has raked $300k lifetime has generated the equivalent of a few hours of Pokerstars daily profit.

They don't really morally owe any of their customers anything though unless they expressly market themselves as a website from which you can make a living. Yeah if they shut down suddenly and leave people in the lurch chasing annual bonuses they should probably give notice in advance but as far as having to consider their so called 'poker ecosystem' every time they want to do something new that's ridiculous

What happens if Pokerstars just packs up one day because it can't be bothered running its operations anymore? The large majority of its customers would say 'oh well there's one avenue of fun I don't have anymore' while the grinders relying on it for a living would be totally screwed. It's kind of worrying that some people are so reliant on one company's gaming website for their livelihood.

well it is their job

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SXB1hvxnzw
cant remember how to embed

Pokerstars should always put the casual player first, should not care what sne grinders who just kill the fish and the game slowly,

well played ps they should try get sne of the site (multitable sne play same and kill fish) obv some are fine

sne as willy wonker once said (YOU GET NOTHING) spin to win baby there fun ,end of

Its pure fun but def Stars has made it impossible to win a large prize makes PLO look fair lol