AFAIK, Puggy Pearson wasn't a cheater, just a notorious angle shooter. Limon told a story once where Puggy hid all of his big chips("The Torelli") and Limon went all in on him, Puggy called and showed the big chips, Limon called the floor and the floor let him out of being all-in for the full amount because it was a pretty shady and blatant angle.

Except huds weren't prohibited for most of online pokers history.

I think the morals about cheating in live poker pre 80ths were something along the line of 2005 Multiaccounting, ppl scoffed at it and sighed but it wasnt a big deal. being able to cheat back then was probably seen as part of a skillset by some lol

You think Sklansky too the opportunity of what, Chip Reese's death to slander him? ok pal.

Yeah remember those 2 people who cheated, and then when given the opportunity to come clean about it, chose to LIE? EVERYONE CHEATS AS MUCH AS THEY CAN YOU NOOBLETS.

This is absurd on its face. Doing something expressly allowed in the rules is never cheating. Just because some people don’t consider it pure poker does not make it cheating by any definition.

HUDs are accessible for everyone. A most amateur player can process a green number indicating loser, and a red number showing toughness. It makes strategy more interesting, how is it cheating?

As for David, I believe telling the facts while Chip was alive could have been transformatively bad for his reputation. Waiting 13 years to produce a nugget in a memoir is hardly scathing. I also don't know if anyone is more reputable.

It is common for people to think they know things when they should realize they do not, so I am not surprised by your post.

Lots of people who tell stories that you hear are simply ignorant and others lie for obvious reasons or simply guess around and represent opinions as facts.

Puggy was a well known cheat.. 100 precent. By the way, n casual conversation he had quite the stories.

There is cheating in all areas of life, both by people who are disliked and those who are well liked-- Lance Armstrong comes to mind.

Over the years, in casino play, I will say as fact that there has been plenty of cheating, of all kinds: marker cards, crooked dealers, holding out, teams, electronic aids, management/surveillance, stolen dealer tips and rebuys, and on and on and on.

Private settings with often less protection? Plenty.

Online? Oh.. my. I will defer to Russ Hamilton for an answer.

Active players and gamblers running the games? Even more, but not with every single person. Wrong incentives often produce wrong behavior.

Honest and competent management plus correct game protection systems in place can help a lot. However, most people do not understand what those systems are and even then, often those systems are not in place or they are disregarded.

I can not stress enough how important strong systems are.

(The main idea behind shuffle machines is to get out more hands but since the machine counts the cards every hand and flashes a light when the deck is short, do you think (in some places) that holding out is more or less likely when these machines are used?)

When I first started playing I was shocked to watch a cold deck put in a WSOP side game, meet hold out players and mechanics, meet a floor person who for 50 dollars from Hall of Fammer Sarge, put marked cards in a heads up game, be myself offered all kinds of (declined) cheating opportunities, etc, etc, etc.

Now I am shocked at how many people believe there has been almost no cheating in poker. They believe this in spite of having been taken advantage of many times in their lives and knowing there is plenty of cheating in most other walks of life.

There are many honest people but because some are not or they are incompetent, can be mistaken, etc (and this can cause meaningful harm), I will steal a page of life advice from The Fifth Agreement:

Be Skeptical But Learn To Listen

Money, People & Self-interest?

Wrong incentives often bring out wrong behavior.

So many people travel through poker that it is not possible to follow Warren Buffett's advice:

"Look For Integrity.

When hiring or choosing associates, look for:

Intelligence, energy, competence, integrity."

___

* in choosing poker opponents, we may prefer opponents lacking some of these.

But I greatly like Buffett's life advice.

So I suppose we should stop Christianity as Jesus isn't able to speak in his defence?

Also let's not talk about Hitler any more, for the same reason.

From now on, let's only talk about living people.

Just brilliant Roboprop, please post many more of your deep thoughts.

Cody Garbrant is suspended? For what?

My Bad I thought I heard he was suspended as well for PED's. But it
was a medical suspension.

But how bout I just replace Cody Garbrant with the Houston Astro's that just got buried today for cheating there little asses off.

The Boston red sox might be next. Scoring too many runs equals cheating

The first time Chip Reese cheated me was in 1867. The year was 1925 and we had travelled to the Buckaroo (now known as the Thinman's Rumble) to play 2-4 single draw melonball. Chip sauntered in the room with Doyle behind him. They stumbled visibly, busy counting their money. "How did they get all that money?" I said, suspiciously. "They're Christians," said a young Candace Cameron, who was waitressing at the club. "But shouldn't they already have made enough then?" I questioned, questionly. "They're new at it, born again," interrupted Sam Trickett, who many of you may think was not alive at the time, but think about this, doesn't his name sound like one of those that time guys? Anyway the game begins and Chip buys in for 14 and Doyle buys in for 10. I'm shortstacked with 6 and Chip begins needling me, jesusly. "Thou shalt not leave with thine chips," he retorts. "Blessed art thy next rebuy," adds Doyle. They both begin to grin, it seems their mouths do not end. The smiles spread endlessly, forming circles in the sky above their head. I begin to panic as the room swirls as well. I fall to the floor. When I awake I have been dealt a great hand. Jack Ten Nine Six Four, commonly known as sequence. Openenders have similar, but better odds. I nod to the dealer, a young Phil Simms just on the cusp of his NHL career. I discard the six and four and quickly Chip Reese intercepts the deck and deals me two off the top. I blink and look up at him. He looks like Walter Goggins. Not that he does, but I've never seen Chip Reese and when I hear the name I always picture that actor Walter Goggins. Does he play poker? Anyway I look back at my two new cards and I have an Ace, and, you guessed it, six more aces. "I'll wager all 6," I say, and push my ships forward. Doyle smiles and gestures to his face, "My skin no longer adheres to my bones!" he excitedly declares. I nod agreeingly, and reach to confirm. "No one touches the good butter," shrieks Candace, and slaps my hand. "I'll call you" mentions Chip, and turns over his hand to reveal something better than mine. He winks and I realize I've been cheated. I attempt to sell my Taylor Swift tickets to get back in the game but no one on the ranch floor is buying. They're all already signed up for tonight's big Square Dance, hosted by David Boreaniz. I get escorted out and am not allowed back. To this day when I see chips or reese's candy, I clench my fist and lament. But that man, he was a christian and taught me about forgiveness. I forgive you Chip, you were a great man, and a great champion.

I don't think they see it as cheating it's maximising their edge, and whether it's right or wrong is another discussion. Like in wall street, scratch beneath the surface of any successful hedge fund manager and it's rife with shady dealings. Reminds me of that scene in wall street where Gordon Gecko tells bud foxx, staying up late and studying charts and fundamentals isn't enough.

My dad was an old school poker player. When he taught me poker in the early nineties, he also taught me how to cheat. He told me I was to never cheat, but felt it was important I knew how to so I could spot a shady game. It was a big part of the game back then and if you didn’t know things to look out for, you became an easy target. Not too different from today really, just different things to look out for.

He kind of looked at it like if you’re too stupid to spot a cheat, you deserve to be cheated.

http://www.stevebadger.com/poker-boom/cheater/ here is a story where actually chip reese was cheated by a player using god mode software. Great players don't have to cheat. All this chip reese nonsense about cheating is a bunch of bull. He even talked about many times he went busto playing to high for his br. Ivey gone busto, so has doyle and the rest of them. If they were cheating they would of never lost. These guys are playing mixed games btw not texas holdem looking at 2 cards. Mixed games takes the most advance skill to win. So skill is way more important then luck. Its why chip destroyed. Not cause he had to cheat. They played up to 12 games.

Galfond even talked about playing in those mixed games and said he was impressed how doyle at his age played all of them well. If these guys were cheating they wouldn't be these great players. Even hellmuth said chip reese won more money then anyone in cash games and that was an amazing player. You can tell when you play with them if they are the real deal or not. Chip was so great at poker before he even went to vegas. He was way above everyone just destroying them at dartmouth. His fraternity later named their chapter card room, the "David E. Reese Memorial Card Room" in his honor cause he such unbelievable player. Someone that great at cards doesn't have to cheat. People just get jealous and can't beat them and assume they cheat.

I even heard stories about dwan, galfond colluding together in 6 max games cause that had similiar high bb win rates, and isildur could see the cards etc. ITs just a bunch of nonsense cause people are jealous. My friend had a crazy win rate almost 30bb online crushing everyone and everyone assumed he cheated but i would watch him play he just a sicko with unreal raw talent for the game that could make some of the sickest calls you would ever see and time the perfect spots to run big bluffs etc. But everyone said he cheated. He 100% never did. But people get jealous cause they aren't as good and make an excuse and say they cheat. When doyle, ivey, hellmuth, greenstein, antonius, annie duke, all the old regs i know who played with him etc say hes the best all around ever and was amazing player the guys not cheating. You can't fool that many world class players and cheating them. Chip had to worry more about people colluding against him. He was so good he didn't have to cheat. its like saying michael jordan cheated. They are so talented they don't have to.

Warren Buffet is a big time liar btw. Especially about how he invests. When hes been called out his excuse is always sometimes you go against your own rules

[QUOTE=iburydoscocaroaches;55741847]http://www.stevebadger.com/poker-boom/cheater/

Great players don't have to cheat.

You are implying that great players rarely if ever have cheated. This is laughably false.

Props for reading, listening and trying to think of what makes sense to you.

Unfortunately you do not know what you are talking about and are representing your opinions as facts.

Throughout history, many great poker players have "chosen" to do quite a bit of cheating.

While reasons should be obvious, few will talk about this with outsiders. Guess around about which ones did and did not, if you like.



Take heart though, many champions in many fields have cheated: Athletes on steroids, Wall Street legends, Thomas Edison, etc.

Mason asked me to make clear that no should assume that the stuff I wrote regarding the Dunes card room and Chip, has anything to do with Doyle Brunson. They became close after those years. Neither Mason nor I have ever heard anything about Doyle other than that he was an honest player.

Dude your a crackhead. Did you really say all this and then mention
Phil Ivey in your post. A great player you said ?????? You do realize
Ivey is under lawsuit for CHEATING lol WTF

A great player doesn't need to cheat? so Is Ivey great.
U suck

Thanks for posting this Terry King interview. There are so many interesting anecdotes in this hour long discussion. The Gold Dust Twins, Chip and Danny of course but she also recounts side-splitting tales about Stu Ungar, Doyle Brunson, Tony Spilotro, Puggy Pearson and several other colorful characters. She is quite the raconteur.

of course i can't say if Ivey never cheated in his career, but the lawsuit between him and the borgata isn't about cheating. judge said it's not cheating, but his demands and technique changed the game so it's a breach of contract. hence he must pay back the money he won.

So he was a cheater

Judge says its not cheating cause people are morons
What does common sense say

If he used the back of cards to read them and beat you in poker
would you consider it cheating then. HELL YA

It's cheating period. No matter what these morons want to spin it too

Not if he didn't have anything to do with making the backs readable and wasn't working with someone who did. I would blame the house for using cards whose backs could be read.