“Pp live dollars have no financial value” says right there...in short terms it’s a postit note with some numbers written in pencil......

It will be interesting to see if Party Poker will guarantee it should the owners default or just decide not to honour it. I had someone reach out but haven't gotten a response yet.

Hmm just thinking you can't call a transfer of $10k PPL from one party to another money laundering if it has no financial value....

Line could have been inserted to allow for such transfers of PPL - UKGC has prosecuted sites heavily on potential money laundering before.

My guess is though Partypoker are in charge of PPL $. When the PPL money is redeemed for a tournament ticket Partypoker then pay Partypoker live the full amount/discounted price?

I say this because players could previously transfer PPL $ to tournament dollars - at least if they emailed support.

Just because the T.o.S. says the PPL$ have no monetary value, does not mean that regulators will agree.

Does an entry into a live tournament have “no monetary value” in the legal sense? Serious question, idk.

So I guess these PPL$ are currently under liabilities in the books right? If they are, my guess is they can be claimed in the case of defaulting. Not sure though.

Prior to that I wonder if the regulators will be ok with players logging onto Party Poker to play in MTT's that are unknowingly to the customer not even owned by Party Poker. Does Party Poker offer security for these MTT'S? Or does that fall on the shoulders of the outside ownership?

As I stated before I predict Party will offer up an explanation.

Furthermore the words of any stable that has announced that they have no special relationship with Party Poker were in a sense pulling our collective chains. That answer means absolutely nothing and is the same response that Party poker has claimed. Because technically Party doesn't own PPL$ so can maintain that answer, although it's not a fully truthful answer.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure you can not sub-let your gaming license to whatevergoes.livepoker.uk without a separate license. But, I am not a lawyer in the industry. Some posters are lawyers though, iirc.

Whose liability? Party Poker?

It makes much more sense that it would fall under DTD/Kings Casino's liabilities... but since PPL is it's own company it would seem there is no liability for anyone unless Party steps up and claims they will cover any losses incurred regardless of reason.

For those how listen in to Joey's podcast w/Rob Young there is reasons to be concerned. He told a story there on how is started his business career with a 5k loan from a bank establishing a staffing/recruiting company. Claimed that advertisement is unnecessary for any reputable businesses and how only hard work is enough... Later telling he used 30k in advertisement (also was a loan, which he admitted he had no chance of paying back if the business failed)... To "top" the podcast he could tell there was around 300k from the CG their streamed from Canada which they could not "find" after doing the accounting, so he had to take the loss. Not a big deal he told and until this day I have not come across anyone that would not be seriously concerned about that kind of amount gone missing regardless of financial situation. Of course there is one kind of "businessmen" that never care about the money because they have not worked hard for it and money is very easily accessable, so I assume I was not the only one thinking twice about that statement. I guess there was a real reason why he did not want to be directly involved in PP and instead having some sort of adviser role. It is harder to link everything together when you operate in the shadows. Information being brought to light on who controls the funds would make me worried. Good luck going to Rozvadov claiming a refund. I don't know that Jackson guy (he don't get the best characteristics). However when you take all information and the people involved it looks like a real investigation is in place. Everyone accused of being involved is dead silent which seldom be misinterpreted.

To see how the link between PP/DTD/BRS have been orchestrated makes me sick to the stomach. One thing is the PPL$, but the games running on PP is not fair which seems to be a bit forgotten.

One recommendation Joey; do not accept that invitation. That was one seriously angry man and would hate to see anything happen to you. There is more than one way to skin a cat; keep that in mind.

I doubt the casino wants to have such high volume of liabilities on it's books, but I can very well be wrong. If they put it under PPL (which is privately owned right) and it goes bust, chances of recouping are probably 2%.

It's all so sad

I think filatov is a dog

You said that if a player has $5300 of PPL$, and has to use them to play a $5300 live tournament where he has an ROI of 75% then those PPL$ have a value of $3750. (in your example im sure the value would be $8750)

I think basically what you're saying is it's unfair if player X is forced to buy into live poker tournaments with his $ whilst player Y can do other things with them, thats difficult to argue with. The value of the PPL $ though doesn't change just because you could do something different with them if you were allowed, essentially $1 in PPL is worth $1 to anyone, as you use them to buy into live tournaments with, and if you didnt have the PPL$ you would use real money.

Lets Say Fedor Holz for example has $25k in PPL he plans to use to play a $25k with he has a 50% ROI in, the PPL$ are still only worth $25k (not $37.5k) to him as if he didn't have the PPL then he'd buy in with real money and still achieve his $12,500 in expected profits.

The only way the PPL$ could have more value than $1:$1 is if using these $ was the ONLY way to buy into a tournament, and the only way they could have less is if for some reason you weren't able to play the tournament and they risked expiration, or if there was a risk of you not being able to use them for whatever reason. As long as you intend to play the tournaments, and are permitted to do so the value is $1:$1 irrespective of whatever anyone else is able to do with their PPL$.

After reading this topicm i'll never play on partypoker

P.S.
ZapahZamazki best poker player in the world

Assuming this is true:

I definitely did not know PPL$ was not owned by party poker. I don't think I would have invested so much money into a currency backed by a bunch of third party casino owners. I've read through the Terms and Conditions many times (although they've changed), and this was never made clear at any point

I would very quickly take a print out of PP's T&C in its entirety prior to it being changed to allow 3rd party subcontractors etc.

You have a lot of money tied up in groups that are opaque and have questionable business ethics dating 10 years back. To give some context BRS is a relative Johnny come lately in terms of DTD.

My instincts are that you are going to be ok along with other PPL$ holders. It will take a bit of time for Party and co to regroup and adjust the rules moving forward. But in the end I think you are going to be made whole in the form of Tickets to Live Events.

I also believe that Party is going to try and continue the "attack from competitors" approach and outside of a brief statement accept no blame from the actions of 3rd parties that Party Poker allowed to run MTT's on their site.

I believe that Rob Yong is going to take a somber look at what's being brought to light and start doing the right thing via guarantees and BRS will end up being a stain on some forgotten underwear. Paul Jackson is a cancer to Poker and has had turbulent relationships with nearly everyone he's been involved in dating 10 years back. This isn't his 1st rodeo. From here on out I think he'll be put to pasture by DTD/Kings and other Live Events as DTD isn't the only one that BRS has done dealings with. More on that later.

Party Poker will refocus and if they have any backbone will cut ties with the people that orchestrated this.... but that can't happen in its entirety. They will and should still work with DTD/Kings as in theory these are tremendous partners.

yea this is obviously correct, apologies for ******ed math- i had just woken up when i made that post.

the time investment + overhead + variance in order to redeem the $PPL in a live event obviously tilts the scale in an uneven way for those who are subject to the rules and those who can just cash them out.

Perhaps some of the higher profile players/coaches that BRS were using should be asked their thoughts on the whole situation. I know that Dara O’Kearney (Irish player who has his own podcast: The Chip Race) played for and did coaching for them, UK pro Simon Deadman did coaching for them, they even had Andy Black doing coaching for them in recent times.Bryan Paris and James Akenhead also names to be added to that list.

Was also interesting to see the BRS players that had been posting/lying across social media in defence of BRS have removed all posts and comments. Including Partypoker live streamer Adam Neal aka IT5PAYDAY. Information I have received is that BRS’s plan is to quietly disappear, and most likely be back next year under a different name,with a more ‘low key’ presence.

I also think everyone should be aware, I have friends who were in BRS during this, and they have just been offered to carry on their deal by the previous owners, who have "parted ways". So I doubt this has even stopped happening yet.

Its not just the live tournaments that this practice happens in where by party poker put players in for free and give then a % of the winnings it is happening daily online as well. Not only for bank roll supply players but other stables also. If party have games that are not reaching the guarantees they give free tickets to the stables and keep like 60% of any winnings the players cash for then the stable and player split the rest. These players are effectively playing in games with no make up and given a free shot time after time in all the 109s 215s 530s 5ks whatever because if party don't do it they have to make up the guarantee but when they do do it they get back 60% of any player winnings.

BRS had people live on Skype calls with PP employees discussing when overlays were looking likely in online tournaments. The PP guys would then tell them they could put in x amount of players for free.

BRS has now closed down. Quietly. Without telling many players exactly what has happened or confirming if they will be given money owed to them.

Wonder if this guy is heading back to his former career now

https://uk.pokernews.com/news/2018/0...0.htm#comments

This got posted in fb group. Was pointed out this is in poor taste with all that's going on. Plenty of brs members turn up to defend him but don't turn up to defend the allegations against them.

Do you think he satellited in?
Or did someone else do it for him?

Irrespective of the above, WP Paul Jackson, now perhaps you could issue some statements that clarify the whole BRS/PPL/Party/DTD relationship.