Posted in the UK Poker Facebook group. Strange

Polite notice:
We will not be allowing any posts regarding anything to do with BRS and the toxic scandal that is surrounding it on this page. If you do want to participate in the chat I suggest you find the thread on 2 + 2 and put your input in there. Also please do not message members of this page asking for more information regarding playing, staking or anything else regarding the aforementioned group. Thank you.

I can confirm this to be true

Freedom of speech, eh? or maybe after Brexit it is different

You mean BRexit?

Why you have to ruin my joke, man?

Anyways, enough with the jokes.. Joey Ingram - If you, sir, are making any videos about this - I can give you evidence hard as every man's morning wood

How's that $11 ticket treating ya? Any reason you shut down.

From UK Poker Room
Funny how Paul Jackson or who ever is able to influence some groups and not others.

Hello everyone,
Heres my story with BRS. I was invited to join the BRS academy earlier this year, a sort of holding pool for the main BRS group. It had hundreds of players and only a few managers of the stable. Like others I was promised coaching and mentoring, however over the year I received no coaching and essentially felt like a another 'cog in the machine'. It seemed they would take on essentially anyone who understood the handrankings of poker! From using sharkscope against usernames I found they where taking on players who had consistently lost £1000s and where simply your local fish. It made no sense as a long term buisness.

Every day we where given a roll of £50 that was requested through a portal to play low stakes tournies on PP. Up untill this point everything seemed pretty normal. Then things got strange... Through the Facebook group we started getting posts for NMU funds every day. Essentially free money not deducted from your PNL (Profit and Loss). The wanted us to play satellites for PPL$ to prevent them from overlaying but only registering to the minimum amount of runners to reach the GTE. I found that most of the players in these satellites where BRS funded players. Out of 10 runners on average 8 would be BRS. I knew this as there was a list of all active BRS staked players and there usernames posted in the FB group. I wish I had this list but never saved it to my PC and the group has been dispanded as of recently.

From a players perspective like others in the group I took advantage of the essentially free money NMU funds and accumulated over a $1000 PPL. Without risking anything therefore I was able to play more aggressively as I didnt care about variance as I could just play the next satt for free. I used the PPL$ when there where huge GTEs at DTD that would likely overlay. I turned up played the tournament like everyone else. Yet nobody would have known I was staked by BRS and could have fired many bullets essentially risk free. Because of the nature of BRS being online. I could never put a username to a face so when playing at DTD there could have been 10,20,100 or more BRS players in any one tournament! I only knew a few people by real name that I had seen from their Facebook profile. This operation was massive and staking was just something not talked about at the tables.

As others have said in September without warning the BRS academy stable stopped taking on new players and many including myself where then removed from the group and remaining PPL$ held by BRS. While part of BRS everything was very secretive. Without giving names some of the stable managers where like dictators running a cult. They felt like Gods! As part of the staking agreement they had our client logins User and Password for party. They had $1000s at there disposal to give and could remove your account balance at any time. I like many others took as much as I could while part of BRS.

I wish to keep myself annoyonmous for fear that those involved in this scandal are very high up and powerful. I have no idea what Party Pokers involvement and what the agreement was with DTD. But am certain there was some shady agreement between Party, BRS and DTD that needs to be invesigated by an independant governing body. There buisness model at face value made no sense. Hope this sheds some more light on the sheer scale of this operation.

Can someone just explain in simple terms what is wrong with the situation that is being described as occurring.

Party makes a huge guarantee - overlay looks likely - party/3rd party put players into tournament for a % of their winnings- players play they get no preferential treatment and thats it right ?

As someone that plays a lot of the party live events i feel its fine.

I just don't get what they are doing wrong.

If they give preferential treatment or put non backed players at a disadvantage within the rules if the game then yeah that's bad but it seems they are not.

-On April 15th 2018, on the 7 year anniversary of Black Friday, Party launched a new promo: PPL$ Leaderboard

-PPL$ is short for Party Poker Live Dollars, a currency intended to be used only for live tournaments, or Online Millions. As per the T&C: PPL can't be sold, can't be transferred, can only be used for Party Live Events. PPL$ won can't be used to play more PPL$ satellites. All PPL$ expires within 24 months of being won

-They also released a $1,000,000 leaderboard promotion to encourage players to play the game. This created a lot of hype and drove players like myself into the grind, where I have devoted the last 3 months of my life to satellites, where I have accumulated $215,000 in PPL$ (175k balance). I currrently sit 2nd on the leaderboard that would award me $80,000 in additional prize money if the contest were to end now. This has injected a ton of immediate cashflow in Party Poker where they have full custody over our funds

-Myself and others have pumped a lot of money into this system, under the assumption that all parties were playing by the same rules. I liked the design of the PPL$ system, since PPL$ could only be used for live and couldn't be transferred, I assumed this would make near impossible backed players to be able to compete. As someone who does/has done a lot of backing and investing myself, the liquidity required for a backer to put players in these games when you realize none of the immediate returns is staggering. It was hard enough to fund myself.

-I was always aware of BRS backed some UK players in these games. I also suspect there is another stable of players. That's fine with me, I never really suspected collusion among them, and if I did, I could just report that to support. I have no issue with stables playing the same format. I always wondered how could someone afford to back multiple people in these game until now, lol. I was happy they were in the games, and I couldn't wait to get to play with some of these same guys live. PPL$ in design was great, because in theory, it should be providing a ton of forced liquidity into Party's live games.

-Theory and reality are 2 very different things though. It came to my attention through a 2p2 post in this very thread that BRS players were able to transfer their PPL$ out of their account to a Main BRS fund. This main BRS fund could also be used to put whoever they want in live games, even if that PPL$ wasn't won by the player themselves. The players who actually won the PPL$ have no obligation whatsoever to use this money for the intended purpose. I have proof to corroborate these claims, some of which has already been posted here, and other via PMs from people

(While there are rumors that players have been also able to use PPL$ for online tournaments, I have yet to receive proof of this. I am offering a $100 bounty if anybody can send me proof of this claim. There are other accusations as well which don't exist beyond hearsay, so I won't mention them)

For now I can only speak to the facts of the things I've seen and confirmed. That PPL$ was transferred amongst BRS players through a central fund, with no obligation for the player won actually won the prize to use it.


----------

-Why does this matter?

For me, I feel like I have been a victim of fraud. I have invested my money in what appears to be a ponzi scheme where select group(s) of individuals have been given special administrative privileges by Party to use PPL$ winnings for purposes not allowed as per the T&C. In my opinion, this devalues my illiquid investment greatly as it jeopardizes the duration/success of the promo. Party shouldn't be able to choose when/when not to be the custodian of funds. and who gets to play by what rules when it comes to PPL$. Who gets the non-transferrable, expiring money...and who gets to just send it to their fund to do whatever they want with it?

What I would like is to be given those same privileges. I'd like to be able to transfer my PPL or use them to buy other players into live events since I've seen several examples of this happening, at least 20+ people. It's hard to undo the damage already done as so much money has been cycled through for others. The system can't sustain for another 6 months in its current form. Given the information we already know, I feel this is the fairest solution and puts everybody on a more equal footing

Looking back through Party's history, they also doesn't have the greatest track record when it comes to custodial services in year long promos gone wrong. In 2006 they ran the Monster Promo where rake was increased in all games to provide freerolls throughout the year. With UIGEA happening they had to cancel the promo and payout based on equity. As per: https://www.tightpoker.com/news/part...-monster-1080/



While this was a bit before my time, I have to agree with their conclusion. The industry has evolved over the last 12 years. Players have learned a lot of costly lessons from the past, and the advent of new technologies opened our minds towards what is possible moving forward. Players today value transparency, communication and security now more than ever. As we continue to grind into the future, any site that doesn't cater to these growing values and instead relies on backroom, under the table deals will be fighting a losing battle when it comes to customer acquisition/satisfaction/retention

Sect7G Are u in my group have u not seen ive reposted? maybe try commenting in it and show who u are and not hide behind Sect7G?

As for the $11 ticket ? grow up.

LOL such a joke.

Amazing how Pleno, Party Reps and John Duthie all know very little about BRS, the stable who feeds tonnes of players and is exclusive to Party. Yet to everyone in the UK circuit, this has been an open secret for years.

And they they do the whole Trump-esq move of making it into a conspiracy theory.

Feel for players like LipoFund, to put so much time and money into a promo and now have the anxiety of all this must be a real tough ordeal. Good luck man.

Hey Lipo i totally respect your opinion and i myself have 5 figs of PPL$ but i just disagree with your take on it. I feel the promotion has been overlaying massively in almost every spot and that we, as players have taken advantage of this great promotion ( the overlay in the sats rather than the leader board promotion) for the past couple of months and this has to be balanced against some people having more liquid use of ppl$.

I totally get your take on it but for me personally i try to look at the intent behind the actions and feel that party have tried to act with the right intentions and that whilst some people, like your self, have seen some negatives in this issue i am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt over it as i feel they haven't had any malice behind their actions.

I hope you get some where with them over this issue as i have felt that they have always been great with me when issues occur and i urge you to reach out to someone there as that might help.

I know i am going to get the shill tag for defending them but a lot of people know me IRL and know that i am one of the most independent players out there and don't really have any allegiances to anyone in poker as i have never been backed/ as fully integrated to the poker community as most.

I just like what party have been doing and don't want something like to mask the good job they have being in the past few years.

Cheers

Sorry for the bad joke. It was out of line. PADS was good enough to actually post my name without me asking along with some unceremonious comments as if I'm some "Johnny come lately". Interestingly enough he once posted "that I understand this business" but obviously that must have been in regards to a different issue.

well I think it all should come down to the gambling commission to investigate the goings on’s...partypoker or anyone else isn’t going to say anything intill they have to so I won’t hold my breath just yet. But without a doubt it will all come out in the end what ever has been happening.

People say that they find pp hasn’t done anything wrong well we will all find out in the end only a matter of time.

Let's assume PPL was as liquid for all players, do you think the overlay would still exist? Why should I get stuck holding the bag of funny money when other groups of players are at an advantage?

I've never had any success dealing with Party directly. My "VIP" Manager has been no help in the past. Support has only given me the run-around. The only way I've ever gotten anything done is through Patrick Leonard. I believe he is a huge asset to them and players like myself, and I thank him for that

FWIW I like what Party is trying to do as well, but in all fairness, this isn't right.

(and who knows what else is going on)

Because there's a difference between $100k guaranteed (say in a $100 tournament) and 1000 players guaranteed. If what party are alleged to be doing (in conjunction with staking groups) is staking players to fill the guarantees for tournaments, they should rename said tournament to "$100, 1000 players guaranteed".

If a player joins the tournament thinking there might be overlay, he's being duped. The skill level of the added players is a red herring. The tournament is being falsely advertised/described. Consumer protection laws are a thing.

I 100% agree and all my sympathy goes for you. Rules should be same for everyone, and @PartyPoker they currently aren't and this case in question should be a huge red flag for any responsible licensor.

I personally decided against running for this live$$$ leaderboard for three main reasons:

1) Bankroll. I expected live$$$ satellites spiral out of hand (which they did) so that you would have to had huge bankroll to play them. As they bit after promo started changed rules that one couldn't use live$$$ for 530$+ satellites most players who participated surely got knocked out bankroll-wise and felt victims.

2)Time. I didn't expected to have enough time to grind satellites every day for a year.

3) PartyPoker hasn't been able to run fair leaderboards AND satellites before either. Considering this with added problem that some people are well aware well before for schedule / satellite changes (like Pads) and they EVEN CAN manipulate them for their own favor (as Pads confessed) I don't feel neither safe or treated equally with some other competitors in the leaderboard.

Yeah there's been overlay and great promotions. It however doesn't wash out the offenses. I even got some live$$$ myself. And feel bit violated and victim of fraud myself as well finding out that some of my opponents have been able to at the same time A) play with Party's money AND B) transfer it to other players or real $$$. If I would be playing for leaderboard I would surely make a direct claim via Gibraltar Gaming Commission to find out if there's any foul play.

Or would you think that it would be fair solution if PartyPoker would find out highstakes collusion which costed hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to players and refund just 50k$ they were able to seize and do absolutely nothing? They did it last year.

A BRS player posted this on another forum (this is just one section of a very long post) regarding PPL$
"PPL$
A twitter post touched on this a little bit, but i’d like to delve into it a little further. As far as I know PPL$ has never been allowed to use for online games by BRS players and certainly not me. So whoever come up with this bull**** is literally out there to **** stir. It’s not allowed and its not even possible as far as I know. In terms of a photo published earlier yesterday regarding movement of PPL$ to another account, there’s perfectly good reasoning for that which i’ll go into now...
Players within BRS and I suspect any staking group move up and down buy in levels. If I was a player that usually plays anything up to $55 and I’d had a good few months and I’d played well, I’d likely move up to playing anything up to $109’s and have an occasional shot at $215’s. If I was the complete opposite of this and had a bad month, I’d probably move down. If I won $5k in PPL$ then played **** after i’d won it and went on a downswing, why would I go and play a higher buy in live comp with it? PPL$ was managed internally, to stop players using it willy nilly and without management knowing. It’s a security measure. We don’t want the “Anonymous’” of the world winning comps with PPL$ previously won and hide from a winners photo. (You know you wouldn’t see me hiding from a winners photo.) Every players PPL$ is their own and never gets spread out between players like it has also been suggested. As if BRS could STEAL another players PPL$ and then just give it someone else. BOLLOCKS! So that’s another rumour put to bed."


My question in response to this would be.... So what happens to the individuals PPL$ when they leave or are sacked from BRS? Is this returned to their account, used by other players or are they removed from play all together?

I wanted to say I am a ex brs player when I was with them you would get on phone calls or messages late on a Friday to be at dtd the next day as there was going to be a overlay and they would enter you in as many times as needed I wasn't with them when pplive cane in but before that you requested your bankroll each day played in as many satalitte s as you could to win tickets every night if you didntbuse all your bankroll you had to send remaining funds back to Brs then once a week they swept ( as that called it ) the tickets you had accumulated over the week and then they were converted into monetary value which was then put in you profit and loss so if by Monday you had won 4k in tickets and used 1k from your bankroll the 1k was taken off the 4k and then you got 50% of the 3k left. This to me shows involvement from party poker as I don't know any player who is not backed by them who can convert ticket for the cash value .
Also the collusion amongst players messaging each other hands chip passing is unreal which was my main reason of leaving you also got told off if you took another brs out of the satalitte and the bullying tactics from those above was awful I have nothing to gain by saying my side but after reading everyone else comments I felt it only right to say what I know .
Because of the above I don't now play party poker ever or play at dtd as I think the whole set up is unfair on players who back themselves

An awful lot of one post accounts the same time as competitors have been ramping up the social media attacks on party #justsaying

True, however I would assume that this is quite normal when a thread of this nature comes along. Many recs have almost no interaction with the poker community outside of facebook forums and their own social circle, so when a link is posted to something like this they are coming to the site as entirely new traffic....which doesn't make their comments any less valid surely?
Also you have people like myself, who would use the site for specific reasons (mine was to keep track of a blog which a friend of mine writes on here) but haven't needed to create an account in order to do so - however this topic engaged with me enough in order for me to create one and post comments.

I would imagine something very similar happened during the whole "More rake is better" debacle with Stars no?

Not sure tbh I just have a feeling not all is as it appears.

This thread was about Party last year. Within are a load of posts about BRS, Bots, Leaderboards etc

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2.../#post52273847

You don't quite understand BRS/DTD within the UK community. To actually put your name to allegations could cause you to lose memberships at live card rooms, plus you have friends who work for these organisations too who aren't directly involved in this but it would still make it awkward.

And the vast majority of people who use 2p2 are lurkers. Think I read a statistic that only 2/3pc of users actually post. This is also post-boom, where 2p2 isn't as popular for the casual poker player as it used to be.

I am back at work on Tuesday (I work for a gaming company that doesn't offer a poker product) and will be having a friendly discussion with the compliance people there. There is no way that this situation would be something that the UKGC would approve of.