Here's the hand in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi5m...ature=youtu.be

Basically, Harry over-jams the flop and gets snapped by middle set. They agree to run in twice before the cards are exposed. Once he sees his hand he says, "No, I only want to run it once" and goes runner-runner to hit a flush.

I think the ruling by the floor is correct post-hand, as the casino can only enforce decisions/rulings on the first board, but it's still pretty shady.

kinda messed up but i think Harry wasn't intentionally angle shooting
dealer has the responsibility to confirm running once or twice

At best it looked like Harry could have seen he turned a flush draw and decided to just take this shot and run it once with his best case scenario happening on the turn of the first board already; but it is shady to both agree on 2 boards and then just unilaterally decide on only 1 time once he sees what he's up against as the turn card is coming out.

I listened to it a couple of times, and did not hear Harry ever agreeing to run it twice. It seems like his opponent says "run it twice", but I don't hear Harry say anything, so unless there is some sort of standing agreement to run them twice it should default to once.

The dealer should definitely not have proceeded until it was settled. If a player is allowed to choose once or twice after the first flop is out that clearly gives a big advantage.

He Agrees at 0:23

You can clearly hear "how many times Harry? - Twice". You can also hear the dealer announce they are running it twice!

Some (generally superstitious) players prefer to run it once or twice depending on what they're up against. As such, players often wont reveal their hands until they've decided how many times to run it (the opposite player apparently also being superstitious or just not wanting to reveal their hand unnecessarily). Whether or not a mutual decision to run it a certain number of times is binding or not before any further cards have been dealt is an interesting one. There's probably no rule here. Verbal declaration binding?

Holding him to his initial agreement seems fine to me. But letting him change his mind before any cards have come out seems fine to me too...it doesn't change the equities; even if he is "angling" by getting to see his opponent's cards, that doesn't actually mean anything; and if he's an action player, you want to keep him happy. Obviously once any additional community cards have been dealt/exposed, you can't change how many times you're running it, since then you can angle on the equities.

Very shady. He did agree to run it twice until he saw the turn card.

This is the most absurd ruling and it took a lot of crying from Harry to go to the casino manager. There were two floormen, Cecil and Luis (sp?), who said that there should be two boards. Nobody was taking Harry's side, with two people at the table even sticking up for Chris.

It takes two people to make an agreement and it should take two people to break it. Harry changed his mind as the turn card was out. Whether he saw it or not, is not the point. He will always yell that he didn't see it. Harry should have stopped the dealer if he wanted to change his mind. Not in the middle, while the dealer is putting cards out.

The Bicycle has the worst reputation and the people in charge bend rules to help their friends. The manager, George Rahme, is clearly out of his mind and the most unethical one here. Making a ruling that went against what the table, commentators, and floormen said. Bald, napolean complex. All to help a "regular" at the bike whos crying that he "always gives action". This is why the Bicycle plaza section is always empty. Half the table is hosts and the other half is prop players. Just a joke how things are run at the Bike. I'm glad this hand was recorded so people can see why they really struggle to fill games.

This is the problem with running it twice. You open yourself up to getting angled/exploited. And then you have to rely on floors/dealers to make correct rulings. Players back out of their word to their advantage depending on the first runout more than you'd think.

You save and protect yourself a lot of grief and hassle by having a firm run it once rule.

Clear angle as he saw the turn. And don't think this is first time Harry has done some angle type ish

At about :21, he says "twice".

At 0:51 harry then says, "it doesn't matter, I can change my mind".

Clear angle shot in my opinion.

There's always a risk that you get f'ed over by shady floor men, with or without running it twice.

I don't know if there should be a rule against changing your mind before the next card comes out as it doesn't change the equities. But letting someone change their mind after another card is out is just plain ridiculous and I hope somebody informed Gaming about it.

It is hard from the footage to tell the precise moment at which he said "once, once, once, I can't win it twice".

You really need to see his mouth saying the words and the dealer turning over the turn card in the same shot or split screen to tell if he says it a fraction of a second before the turn card was revealed or after it was visible.

He may have said it a fraction of a moment before the turn card was dealt in which case it wasn't an angle but was careless by him as cutting it so fine to change his mind can/did cause confusion and is a bad idea all around.

There isn't enough evidence at this stage to call it a clear angle.

Physical violence is never the answer...







but..

Poll added.

How does the casino allow players to run it twice, and then let players to do this? If a casino allows something in their games, they need to be accountable for it. Once the dealers confirms twice, and starts peeling cards, then it is 100% going to be run twice.

How does he miss the turn?
Turn increases his equity from like 5% to 20%

Harry is an Ass
He's constantly quitting LATB, he's ripped up decks of cards a few time abruptly ending the stream, he's an ass to non-reg pros, he's been as ass to the dealers, he thinks he's "above the law" because he drops money in the casino.

I posted in the LATB thread, but Harry only changes his mind once Chris opens his hand and he has new info - That's what's shady.
And, Chris only opens his hand because they've already agreed to 2x

Harry 100% says "Twice", twice is agreed, dealer says twice and he starts...
What's the dealer supposed to do, ask 3 times?
Twice? Twice is good, Twice... Twice [burn and turn]

Now, I don't know if Harry saw the Qh or not
Also, running it twice is noy enforceable by the Bike, it's not a legal gaming thing they said.

It's always a gentleman's agreement to run it twice. Most casino's have the same policy about running a board more than once, so I don't really fault the bike.

This is totally on the player and he should be held accountable.

This was precisely the key for me.

Sure, the camera view of the board is screened at that moment, but you can see the dealer's arm. And you can definitely hear Harry say "wait, once, once, once" almost precisely at the time the turn card is dealt (0:29 of the video).

EDIT:

Also true. And whether or not Harry saw it may not be the point for the floor, but it does (or should) help answer the OP's question of whether or not this was intentional/angle.

The two parties agreeing to run it twice is not a binding contract due to US laws concerning gambling contracts between two parties. It is merely a gentleman's agreement.

The casino runs it twice as a courtesy for such gentleman agreements.

LMAO how did Harry see that flop with $2k in the middle, even if four ways, he had $500 in pre with 93o. poker's dead

that hard, open-hand check from Chris looked strong, after a brief thought. of course easy to say when he has 7s but if I put myself in his shoes, I could easily see myself taking more of that "check" action when strong opposed to weak. makes sense, our body language is very indicative of our thoughts and in this case our thoughts are in regard to a poker hand, in which he has a good one. It goes deep, but I'm certain, if he had JQo there, he's never using that body language or moreso that type of check(Chris).

I guess, in closing, when I said he never has JQo, that is a strong read. the body language definitely said, "hey, I am in deep thought here four ways, not BS acting," unless, of course, you are a sicko, a good actor, and a very forward thinker in doing so

What a bunch of crap that is.

I did not see this hand play out live but would have loved to watch more of this clip and listen to the conversations that followed.

Dick move by Harry, regardless of who it is against. Doing it vs Chris, a player that he plays with on many occasions, is just worse imo.

Side Note: I have a question for something that came out on last nights broadcast. I heard Ryan issue an apology to " The (Jew) Bear " for comments that were made on Tuesday nights episode.....can anyone fill me in on what went down with that?

I tried to watch a little bit on Tuesday but the commentary sucked donkey balls and I could not endure it. Pointless karaoke, just loud off topic conversations and other nonsense that I guess present themselves whenever Ryan is not doing it.

Wow, did not know this. So someone can agree to twice in a massive pot, bink the first one, say he didn't agree to running it twice, and there is nothing that can be done? Guess I should probably start running it once.

He clearly should be bound by the agreement. He didn't want to when he saw how big a dog he was. However, i don't think he could have seen the card as a heart when he reneged. He is sitting to the dealer's right so the card would have been exposed first to chris

this type of nonsense is one one of the reasons i stopped running it twice.
i've seen people angle too many times when running it twice, then seen the games held up while it gets sorted out.one time,push the pot.

Even when i ran it twice it was always a simple "once or twice"?
if they took more than a few seconds to decide or asked what i had, i would tell the dealer to go one time.

With that said harry agrees to go twice, then as the flush card comes out changes his mind. the players agreed to twice, one the dealer goes to burn that should be the end of it.