Russian fold quads in One Drop???? - Page 20 - Poker News

How to teach a beginner how to play poker against most 2+2 regs:

Flat every street
Shove river
Get everything worse than the nuts to fold
Profit

I would kill to see a video of Durrrr's reaction. This is such an lol hand.

07-04-2012 , 06:34 PM

#477

kamikaze baby

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,971

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzwien

How to teach a beginner how to play poker against most 2+2 regs:

Flat every street
Shove river
Get everything worse than the nuts to fold
Profit

I don't think a single person in this entire thread has said they would make this fold, you realize. The posts have either been in the vein of 'well, it's not absolutely completely crazy to fold since it's probably the right fold 1/4 of the time', or 'omg what on earth was he thinking?'

So yeah, try shoving us off our quads and see how well you do.

07-04-2012 , 07:14 PM

#478

Rob_10108

A GIF from God

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 7,510

Villain had JJ. Put the Russian on AK obv.

07-04-2012 , 07:18 PM

#479

Birdseye

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzwien

This. Great post

Also, this kinda confirms Morgan could have awider range than some think:

Quote:

The flop read 10c 10s 8c when Yong bet 300,000. Morgan decided to raise it up to 900,000, but that wasn’t enough for Yong who made it 1.9 million. Morgan didn’t seem impressed, he moved all in, and Yong called his remaining chips off.
John Morgan Kc 9c
Richard Yong 10d 5s
Morgan was looking for a club or running straight cards in order to stay alive, and the turn was the Jh . Morgan could still win this big pot with a seven, queen or a club, but the river was the Jd giving Yong a full house.

07-04-2012 , 07:26 PM

#480

osefiwin

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 118

Sorry but you're being random. In that hand he doesn't slowplay (on the contrary even, he takes an overly aggressive line), the stacks are shallower, it's on day 2... If the hand does anything, it's make it less likely that he has a flush draw in our hand...

Just because he shoved a flush draw doesn't mean he is capable or willing to pull a river bluff in a huge pot against a strong range in a completely different spot and with a completely different line while looking very confident doing it. If someone posted this and had AsKx instead of 88, you would tell it's an easy fold cause we're beat too much of the time.

07-04-2012 , 07:38 PM

#481

molinn9

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,632

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaginasCracked

"I played that hand like a straight flush, even i thought i had a straight flush, ask Dwan hes a pro"

What else can i have there then straight flush these guys have to learn how to fold hands--well finally the russians have learned how to fold hands so Tonys job is done.

07-04-2012 , 07:39 PM

#482

CabMakio

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 58

The fact that anyone is defending this fold reminds me why poker will always be profitable

07-04-2012 , 07:41 PM

#483

lapp3r30

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 251

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Aces 518

For whatever its worth, a Russian in the 3k plo8 said that Morgan went up to Smirnov later and said he had the SF.

Worth nothing I'd say...

07-04-2012 , 08:00 PM

#484

osefiwin

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 118

So, Kamikaze baby, when you see people coming in this thread and overrule everything we've brought up without a single bit of input, do you really wonder why some of us tend to get patronizing?

07-04-2012 , 08:54 PM

#485

JoeyJoJo Shabadu

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,355

I cannot beleive I'm discussing strat in NVG. I don't care who made this fold and if they were right the one time... its the most horrible fold ever.

07-04-2012 , 09:26 PM

#486

JudgeHoldem

banned

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 8,197

Its like when maverick didnt want to take the shot after goose died

07-04-2012 , 09:53 PM

#487

molinn9

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,632

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyJoJo Shabadu

I cannot beleive I'm discussing strat in NVG. I don't care who made this fold and if they were right the one time... its the most horrible fold ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTH4KNiMyjU

talk about worsed folds ever i dont think anything can top this fold
Hellmuth last in chips winner take all format something to think about also.

07-05-2012 , 04:37 AM

#488

Mistongo

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 310

The fold does not make sense, people defending it don't make sense.

After seeing the most unbelievable fold of all times someone like Morgan is not showing his hand only to not ridicule the Russian even more. Probably if he had no class he would be like LOL IDIOT RUSSIAN WTF see my KK, flush etc;
The Russian would have been ridiculed for ever for the opposite reason of the "on your bike hand".
Now the hand is a "mystery" and the worst fold ever could be the GOAT fold to some.

07-05-2012 , 04:48 AM

#489

montabarnak

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 294

41% of people in this thread play poker like these ****in russians.

07-05-2012 , 04:56 AM

#490

lapp3r30

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 251

What if Morgan misread his hand w 23ss and didn't see the two 8's on board because the cocktail waitress was whispering in his ear... Then he dropped the drink she was serving him and, because he's such a gentlemen was helping her clean it up and simply replied... "I'm all in!". Then was pissed off he didn't call cause he was gonna bust out and take the waitress upstairs...????

07-05-2012 , 05:16 AM

#491

Vuggie

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,050

Quote:

Originally Posted by montabarnak

41% of people in this thread play poker like these ****in russians.

well, what do you expect them to vote on, when every option includes only 1 hand. I suppose some of them chose that answer meaning "T9s was the most likely out of all hands listed"

what about those who replied JJ? How do they play? Better than those who replied T9dd?

07-05-2012 , 09:02 AM

#492

grigrory

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 94

After fold of his opponent, who showed quads, if Morgan had anything but no straightflush, obviosly he would also show his so called bluff to the table.

07-05-2012 , 10:47 AM

#493

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by molinn9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTH4KNiMyjU

talk about worsed folds ever i dont think anything can top this fold
Hellmuth last in chips winner take all format something to think about also.

White Magic ftw.

07-05-2012 , 11:11 AM

#494

Goodie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by grigrory

After fold of his opponent, who showed quads, if Morgan had anything but no straightflush, obviosly he would also show his so called bluff to the table.

There's been some talk about what hands he would show and I have to say that it's insane to think he's more likely to show a hand other than the straight flush.

This is not a professional player. It is WAY, WAY more likely that he shows the straight flush and is embarrased to show any other hand (both for him because he pushed without the nuts and for Smirnov to not throw it in his face).

I would be fairly shocked if he was able to not show the straight flush as this is such an amazing hand and laydown.

07-05-2012 , 11:14 AM

#495

putuonak

enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlameUrParents

I love these guys trying to justify this atrocious joke of a fold.

Lets start off that mathematically you dont fold there EVER. However, lets take it on a deeper journey then.

The Villain is an amateur, correct? Lots of money, correct? ok. Lets go through these in order.

#1 On the flop, if the villain is holding 10/9 of spades and the flop is 7/8/J two spades...He flopped the joint with the re-draw but the hand is still pretty vulnerable especially in a multi way pot....so when Smirnof bets out and with Dwan right behind him the amateur doesnt even consider raising and snap calls??!? Really?? Does that make any sense to anyone? Amateurs nits pretty much across the board snap call either with a huge draw or the nuts nuts that seemingly can not be broken...aka flopped quads or flopped nut flush(heads up) or flopped top boat. Now he did flop the joint, however in this case in a multi way pot with a bet infront of him and a player to act behind, his hand would seem to him vulnerable enough to at least garner some serious thought of raising instead of a snap call.

#2 Smirnoff stated that the amateur looked happy on the turn.....how is he supposed to feel if he called with a nut flush draw and smashed it on the turn...or better yet(and more likely) if he called with the bottom or top set and sees the board pair on the turn....amateur obviously(as pretty much almost anyone would at that point) assume that his opponent is either dead or drawing as close to dead as it gets thus a snap call not to entice any "suspicions" would occur.

#3 And this might be the most overlooked point YET...There is Simply NOT Enough action on the river for Smirnoff or anyone to draw such radically overriding conclusions. If Smirnoff check raised the river and then got stuffed on by amateur, then we have to narrow the range.....but a simple Bet out and an insta stuff proves nothing....If amateur thought that Smirnoff was practically dead on the turn, why would he change his mind now?? Does he all of a sudden think his 77 or JJ or even Nut flush is no good now because the guy bet into him??

#4 To oversimplify it, Amateurs are amateurs mainly because they can not see much further than the strength of their own hand....they dont sit there and evaluate the ranges of their opponents or their previous profile and etc....they see a big/huge hand and everything else gets blocked out for good.

# 5 On the river, once Smirnoff bets....if the amateur has the stone cold, unreal nuts, wouldnt it be an amateur(and maybe even many pros) to hollywood here even for a few seconds.....you are telling me that an amateur has the most unheard of nuts ever and has a guy betting into him and he insta snap stuffs? Is that the standard behavior with the nuts there EVER?

#6 If you run into the ultimate cooler of your lifetime and still decide to fold then you should quit poker and pick up quilting....thats like buying the lottery ticket because you really have a hunch you're going to "hit it".....you getting 2-1 odds to call on a hand(pocket pair quads vs straight flush) odds of which occurring is about 1-1,200,000, so why dont you take those good odds and a grace of poker gods that are gifting you this money and smile. If you lost in this scenario you were never going to win this tournament anyway. And worse comes to worse and that once in a trillion scenario happened you have a cool bad beat story to tell forever. Folding there is a scared, horrendous move that can never and should never be justified.

P.S the amateur was probably so shell shocked by the show and fold that last thing he thought about is showing his cards...and i'm 100000% sure that with all the advice and coaching he got for this tourny, every pro told him - no matter what, no matter how, no matter when - dont you EVER show your cards...you're only giving away info.

P.S II - if youre bad enough to make that horrid fold at least dont be dumb enough to show it...after that you are going to be psychologically broken and have no shot at anything anyway.

This. Exactly.

07-05-2012 , 02:41 PM

#496

freestoner

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1

I write the Gambling column for the SF Chronicle and my gut feeling is that no way did Morgan have the straight flush. One reason Smirnov says he thinks Morgan had the nuts was because he was excited after the turn. No sh-t, he hit his nut flush there and thought he was golden (or maybe his full house but the way the hand went down suggests he had the ace of spades with another spade).

Most revealing: Morgan said he didn't want to reveal his hand out of respect for his opponent. Translation: No, I couldn't be quads but don't want to embarrass Smirnov by showing or telling.

07-05-2012 , 03:37 PM

#497

osefiwin

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 118

Hey freestoner, we've got people who know Morgan from before saying he doesn't shove the nut flush here. We've got people who were at the table playing with him saying he doesn't shove the nut flush here. Hey, we've even got Phil Galfond saying he doesn't shove the nut flush here.

But you write the Gambling column for the SF Chronicle? OH MY GOD, LET'S FOLLOW YOUR GUT.

07-05-2012 , 04:17 PM

#498

PayOffWizard1987

banned

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 428

You can't fold quads to a russian billionaire...

Where is Tony G when you need him most?

"Bring on the russians! Bring me more russians!"

07-05-2012 , 04:19 PM

#499

lapp3r30

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 251

Quote:

Originally Posted by osefiwin

The only reason 40% or whatever it is voted he had the 10 9 is because Galfond came out and said it was a real possibility. Pretty easy to vote when Galfond has your back. And Morgan 4bet shoved Yong w K high flush draw on a paired board... So who can say he wouldn't shove a nut flush?? Played completely different... I realize that. But he's still shoving in a hand that can effectively be drawing dead...