What if:

1) Offshore company is formed and defrauds its customers in order to finance a seperate startup.
2) When the startup is pending a sale, the original firm threatens to sue startup which ultimately sells off for an amount and then settles for a similar amount (or vice versa).
3) Most of the proceeds of the sale (less consulting fees, management fees and specific owner's shares) are then transferred offshore to satisfy the settlement (no way this ever reaches a court of law). These proceeds are then disbursed to the various team members into whatever vehicles they have set up (swiss, cayman, etc).

lol

It would be HILARIOUS if the proceeds of the AP and UB scams were used to buy AP and UB themselves. However, I think that's very unlikely - You don't need to buy what you already own. And the original owners of UB got plenty of money from to the Excapsa IPO.

He's so ****ed. These cheaters.. once their names and photos are out there. I wonder how they'll sleep at night knowing anonymous degens around the world are gunning for them.

I would be surprised if Hamilton was the mastermind

If you wanted to get away with cheating at poker, live or online, you would want to do it without getting caught. Anyone with decent poker skills and a little intelligence would know that playing 60/40, calling down with T9 and winning over 100bb/100 hands will arouse suspicion.

My assumption would be that the people who cheated and stole were not poker professionals.

When you get around the UB crew, you begin to see the stress of it all. They are a sneaky bunch, and seem to suffer from within. Thier THING is a loose confederation of Egos, constantly jockeying for position and acknowledgement. The whole operation reminds me of the stick, string, and carrot, with the donkey chasing the carrot as he pulls UB's cart (the children in the cart).

Following this from the very beginning there is no doubt that the AP superuser/cheats caught were negligent compared to the UB superuser/cheats.

Who are the rest of these cheating bastards? Russ Hamilton, I would guess, definitely played a big roll(maybe mastermind) in this but my guess would also be only on the UB end and I don't think he couldve even done that on his own. If he directly had something to do with the AP superuser/cheats we probably aren't even aware of it since everyone wasso distracted by his neglectful accomplices.

The entire truth will probably never be known by the general public unfortunately. Too much money involved and not enough trustworthy people affiliated with them.

zing

Didn't Barry and Sebok talk to Russ, and saw it in his eyes that he wasn't a cheater??

I guess the kids weren't so naive after all..

Congrats to Barry for being the last to know. He is one of the most connected people in poker and all these pasty white boys with bad acne that have never been laid and can't beat .25/.50 cent no limit knew before he did.

Indefensible.

Has anyone figured out whether the correct amount stolen from players was 6 million or 60? Also on the refunds I would never trust the amount the refunded me unless they presented me with every hand history I ever played against the cheaters on that site. I used to play 300 600 there on a daily basis for years and when I contacted them they said I never played with any of the cheaters, we'll see what happens when they make their final report but I find it hard to believe that these cheaters never once played a limit hold em game on the site.

crooks crooks crooks. I just hope the integrity of other sites is mentioned whenever this story gets press, because enough fish already are sold on online poker being rigged when it isn't!

Yeah and when I started reading the thread I was going to make a post in Barry's defense but his first reply was basically exactly what I was going to say. Anyone who thinks this somehow incriminates Barry has a few loose screws.

what kind of interest do you think they made on that 60M?

And their only being fined 1.5M, what a joke

We still don't "know" who was involved. Even if Russ was involved in cheating on UB at it's earliest point, he's certainly didn't have the ability to set it up. There had to be others involved, probably on the playing side in addition to the technical side.

With some of you guys getting satisfaction in hanging Russ or spewing out names of innocent people, it can cloud the issues and help the real criminals blend into the pack. We will probably never hear the whole truth, but we need to hear the truths that were gleaned from this investigation and a way to determine if this investigation was on the up and up. Guilty parties doing time (resulting from a trial) who can provide consistent corroborated stories pointing to other guilty parties will help.

Barry

P.S. I have not yet received a PM from Oliver or anyone else who will help me clean up my sullied reputation.

P.P.S. In an earlier post someone said they needed proof that Freddy Deeb got refunds or this implicates him as a cheater. We can have the Internet poker version of the Salem witch hunts. Anyone who played high stakes and didn't get a refund is a cheater. I guess I'll be the first to be hanged!

The way the market is going atm I'd say any of them really...

Barry defines class, I wish more poker players or anyone would try and emulate him.

+1

Barry is one of the good guys in this mess iyam.

+2

It shows a lot of character for someone of Barry's stature, someone with nothing really to gain by it, to show up here and openly participate in the discussion. What other name pro has had the balls to even venture a mild opinion on the subject?

Russ Hamilton may have pulled the wool over his eyes during that brief interview but so what? Apparently a lot of people got scammed by Russ Hamilton. Big deal.

Of course he's totally wrong about NVG jumping to conclusions. I don't know where he gets that from. Jeez. Doesn't he read the posts. Off base there, Mr. G. We're so notorious in our level-headedness that when Obama gets elected he is going to put OUR collective fingers on the big red button. Because he knows we can be trusted. Si, se puede!

Which begs the question...who gets it FIRST!

LOL Barry rocks.

Can you idiots please stfu about Barry and get back to Hamilton, Scott Tom et al and the real point of the thread.

And dear Lord if anyone sees Hellmuth in London PLEASE bring this up

Barry your 99% figure that went down to less than 50%, what would that be now?

Unfortunately, due to the legal status of UB, I think there is zero chance that anyone will ever be prosecuted for any of this, but hopefully I will be proven wrong. Now that the KGC has belatedly determined, as a result of the pressure brought by the 2p2 community undoubtedly, that disclosure of (at least some of) the wrongdoers is proper, they need to revisit the AP scandal -- where they were willing participants, along with the current management and ownership of AP, in a total whitewash in which there was no disclosure at all.

barry, every time you respond to these clowns, joe sebok dies a little insdie. poor joe.

Yes, it was a mistake made in a hastily written report and it has been corrected. $60 million is NOT the amount.

Congrats to Josem for getting this story in the mainstream Australian media:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/on...8f.html?page=1

It is ranked presently as "Readers most viewed" on The Age website.

The same story also appears in Sydney, Brisbane and Western Australia newspapers online editions

http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/o...651059903.html (this one has Josem's photo)

http://www.watoday.com.au/national/o...0930-4r8f.html


http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news...651069873.html

Can someone in Australia verify that this story is running in the print editions?

With all respect Barry, it doesn't seem like you are ever really trying to help or get to the bottom of things when posting in these UB threads. You have not provided any valid insider information. You just kind of make sure your TV pro friends don't catch any flak and then add some worthless garbage information that is more of a deflection of the truth that someone is probably spinning off to you.