Quote:
Originally Posted by le Gardener
No, its not like saying that all. Speeding you receive a ticket, whereas a DUI is a criminal offense subject to sentencing. Supposedly FTP should be issuing the same penalties for data mining and botting. Although its very true that this doesn't happen in practice.
It
is like saying that, in that they are two vastly different things that are both against the law, or TOS. Why do you say supposedly FTP should be issuing the same penalties? Where does it say in their TOS that these two activities will receive the same penalties?
How they penalize each breach of their TOS is at their discretion, they're a private company. By your theory saying a word in German in a cash game is equal to botting and no more or less ethical, since it's also against their TOS. They're obviously not going to terminate the player's account and forfeit the funds for that, but they reserve the right to do so for anything they deem " fraudulent, unlawful, dishonest or improper", which means anything they decide. And just like in our justice system speeding and DUI are both traffic related crimes that are weighted completely differently and have different penalties. So the analogy serves its purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by le Gardener
And to your point anyway, I'd much rather play a bot than play an opponent who has 10k hands on me, in terms of maximizing my winrate. This seems pretty obvious.
I'd much rather know if I'm playing a computer or a mammal when I'm wagering money on the internet. Then I'll decide which one I want to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by le Gardener
But again, in general, I'd much rather play against Humans as well and am therefore against botting. But 1. That's not an argument against botting being ethically or technically wrong. 2. SAYING OMG YOURE A POS DIE IN A GREASE FIRE proves nothing other than that you can't distinguish an emotional reaction from an argument.
Yeah its not an argument against it, wtf would it be? The argument against it is that you're deceiving people who unknowingly bet their money against you thinking you're a human being. Why is this so hard to understand?
THAT IS WRONG.
Datamining is a completely different discussion which needs to be addressed, but it doesn't change the fact that its a PERSON on the other end, who gets tired and hungry and goes to the bathroom and has EMOTIONS and tilts (it's funny how many times thats been said already and you and OP are so adamant about ignoring it). They are just making a much more informed decision then the casual player, but a human decision based on exactly their capability at that time. Whether thats ethical or not has nothing to do with botting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by le Gardener
2. SAYING OMG YOURE A POS DIE IN A GREASE FIRE proves nothing other than that you can't distinguish an emotional reaction from an argument.
I didnt tell him to go die, I tried to help him by telling him to mend his scummy ways and be happier for the rest of his life. I can distinguish my argument, ty, and my argument against someone cheating people out of their hard-earned money and trying to justify it is emotional I guess sry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by le Gardener
I think the issue of botting is discussion worth thinking harder about, especially compared to other artificial edges people try to create. That's what I'm trying to instigate.
Sure I agree a discussion on botting is worth thinking hard about. Thinking hard won't make it right unless there is disclosure to the other players at the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeko1985
Again, le Gardener has hit the nail on the head. Levelling abuse at someone and wishing them dead is an emotional reaction more to do with jelousy and hate. If I told people I had a bot and it just lost thousands they would laugh and mock. Its not the botting they are against, its the winning.
I am doing a service to the community, bringing to light important issues, I could have chosen to say nothing on the subject. It doesnt do me any favours.
For those calling for my SN. I still have discussion with FT about my BR, but may consider giving my SN in due course....although this may create obvious problems for me.
You're ****ing bat**** crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeko1985
Let me ask all you bashing me a simple question.
If I gave you a working bot, that you could run on fulltilt and make money for nothing......consequence free, would you do it?.
Now slip out of your high and mighty honourable role for a second and answer the question honourably as if none of your internet friends were around to judge you.
OF COURSE YOU WOULD DO IT. All the hate isnt coming from your disgust at botting and your high morals. All the hate is coming because you are pissed you havent got the means to do it for yourself.
Are you ****ing serious? You just automatically assume everyone is exactly as much of a scumbag as you? And has as little self-respect as you?
If I could rob every gas station in town without consequence, you really think EVERYONE will automatically do it?
I mean, sure there's a ton of scumbags (like you) out there, but don't assume everyone doesn't have a conscience. You realize those names at your online tables are people right? You realize you're not robbing the poker site, but PEOPLE right?
You keep blabbering about how hard it is to program a successful bot, as if in some way that absolves you of any wrongdoing. How delusional can you be? "I worked really hard on this scam so I deserve it waahh
". You keep saying it's the same as if you were playing since you programmed it. You are friggin nuts. It's a software making automated decisions that you put into it at a table full of people who think its a human. You can't see the distinction?
Can you really be this blind? Do you not understand that the edges between most good poker players is tiny? That the biggest factor that seperates average, good and great ones is things like mental discipline, lack of tilt, resiliency to fatigue or needling or w/e, knowing when to quit/not quit and all the other things that a bot completely takes out of the equation?
I'm trying to optimistically convince myself that somewhere deep down your conscience is telling you you are wrong and a POS cheat, and that you were hoping there's enough people out there that are ok with you doing this that it will make you feel better and warranted. But I think the truth is its mostly out of a twisted nutjob sense of entitlement and a little vanity and need for praise that you managed to build a successful way to cheat.
I hope one day when online poker is regulated someone goes back and digs through the records finds every single dollar you stole and presses charges. Wishful thinking, I know