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Old 02-02-2012, 09:50 PM   #176
kickyourace
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Zomboid! View Post
Getting a judgment lien and actually recovering funds are two very different things. Do you think Layne Flack is going to magically discover $2 million under his mattress once there's a judgment against him? Or perhaps they could garnish his wages (ha ha ha ha ha ha ha).
Actually, I don't find it hard to believe they don't have assets that are attachable at all and I'm sure once the deal goes through, you'll start to see that happen.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:50 PM   #177
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by iMsoLucky0 View Post
Sorry for grunching after the first 50 posts but what is the consensus about Barry seemingly thinking US players will only be paid a % of what is owed by the DOJ "fund"?
I made it through about the first two pages and just skipped to the end to see if it had been addressed but apparently it hasn't.

Barry is holding money because ROW players balances, if the deal goes through, are essentially guaranteed to be paid back 100% by GBT. US players on the other hand may only be paid a % of their balances depending on how much is in the player fund set up by the DOJ. Barry is simply waiting until this is situated to make sure he provides the best % for US players as ROW players will get their 100% if the deal goes through.

This is the situation right?

Last edited by kevinb1983; 02-02-2012 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:51 PM   #178
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

if a deal of GBT will be stopped, i will hate you and another so called "pros" for all my life.

u should not play with debt money. lol
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:57 PM   #179
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by iMsoLucky0 View Post
Sorry for grunching after the first 50 posts but what is the consensus about Barry seemingly thinking US players will only be paid a % of what is owed by the DOJ "fund"?
Don't think he said this.

He was talking about the GBT lawyer saying if the DOJ doesn't pay back in full he can have a discount on his FTP debt.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:02 PM   #180
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

My two cents:

GBT contacted BG for money
BG does NOT owe GBT anything
FTP 'lent' BG money ($400K)
FTP stole/defrauded this money from players around the world (US/ROW) per the DOJ
BG effectively owes the money to the players directly - not through a questionable (at best) conduit (FTP) and not to GBT.

BG confirmed the debt, confirmed he will pay 100 cents on the dollar - and is willing to work through the DOJ to complete the repayment process.

Per reports - GBT has known about these debts for 3 months.
Their opinion on the value of these debts may have changed - but the existence of the debts has not. GBT's PR is thus misleading if these reports are correct.

For many reasons - GBT may wish to re-negotiate the terms of their deal.

For many reasons - the DOJ would like to maximize the purchase price they receive for the forfeited assets of FTP.

If each side wants they can offset the 'uncollectable' loans against the purchase price - asset (re)valuation is a common part of the due diligence done between term sheet (offer) and deal consummation.

In summary - BG's position should not affect the deal in any way; if each side wants to complete the deal they can; AND it is incorrect that BG owes any funds to GBT and arguable that he owes money to the BOD of FTP - since they (allegedly) stole everything from the players.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:02 PM   #181
gimmick122
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Hi Barry,
I agree that the figure you owe is not deal-threatening, but likewise, it's also not much leverage in making sure players get paid. Though I appreciate the effort, like others have said, it's not your responsibility to make sure we get paid.
Is there something specific about GBT or the repayment that you're concerned about? When you borrow from a shady company, you can't really complain when you have to pay back a shady company (potentially).
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:05 PM   #182
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Go Get It View Post
Don't think he said this.

He was talking about the GBT lawyer saying if the DOJ doesn't pay back in full he can have a discount on his FTP debt.
Read the last sentence of his post again.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:06 PM   #183
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry,

Why do you think US players will only be paid back some % of what is owed and not the total amount?
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:07 PM   #184
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by tipperdog View Post
I am astonished by all the Barry-love here.

The guy borrowed money, held the debt for years, and now refuses to pay it back. His excuse is that he doesn't like the way the debtor (first FT, soon-to-be Tapie Group) may use the money. That's absurd! Pay back the money you owe!

Analogy: I owe SpanAir Money (airline just went broke). Bankruptcy judge says "pay up." I say "no, because the money might not go to flight attendants stiffed on last week pay." BS. Pay your debt.
I agree
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:07 PM   #185
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

what was your screen name?
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:08 PM   #186
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

If Barry was such a saint, why didn't he come out and tell us about this debt long ago and make some empty promises then? Seems like he got caught and is posting to cover his ass. Pay your debts and you don't get to choose how that money is spent or used.

owe and own are very different words, super tilting...
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #187
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Go Get It View Post
Don't think he said this.

He was talking about the GBT lawyer saying if the DOJ doesn't pay back in full he can have a discount on his FTP debt.
There was a couple too many things in Barry's post that infer U.S. players might not get paid back 100%. By that I mean there were 2.

If that turns out to be the case I'd rather Barry didn't pay it back. ROW players don't matter.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #188
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by troyk710 View Post
My two cents:

GBT contacted BG for money
BG does NOT owe GBT anything
FTP 'lent' BG money ($400K)
FTP stole/defrauded this money from players around the world (US/ROW) per the DOJ
BG effectively owes the money to the players directly - not through a questionable (at best) conduit (FTP) and not to GBT.

BG confirmed the debt, confirmed he will pay 100 cents on the dollar - and is willing to work through the DOJ to complete the repayment process.

Per reports - GBT has known about these debts for 3 months.
Their opinion on the value of these debts may have changed - but the existence of the debts has not. GBT's PR is thus misleading if these reports are correct.

For many reasons - GBT may wish to re-negotiate the terms of their deal.

For many reasons - the DOJ would like to maximize the purchase price they receive for the forfeited assets of FTP.

If each side wants they can offset the 'uncollectable' loans against the purchase price - asset (re)valuation is a common part of the due diligence done between term sheet (offer) and deal consummation.

In summary - BG's position should not affect the deal in any way; if each side wants to complete the deal they can; AND it is incorrect that BG owes any funds to GBT and arguable that he owes money to the BOD of FTP - since they (allegedly) stole everything from the players.
seems spot on imo!
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:12 PM   #189
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

If the doj is keeping the U.S. liabilities(debts owed to American players) doesn't it make sense that they also keep the assets(debts owed by American players)?
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:13 PM   #190
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry just wants to make sure players get paid and any money he pays FTP/GBT/DOJ goes to what FTP owes players (US and ROW)and isn't blown on lobsters.

IF Barry gives this money to FTP now there's no reason to believe the money will go towards players and not spent on FTPers continued operating costs and on lobsters for Bitar.

Why would Barry pay GBT now? IT's not clear if GBT is going pay all of what ROW players are owed. We don't really know what GBT intends to do with FTP if they purchase it from the DOJ. Will they operate a new FTP and pay all ROW players back 100% or will they pay only a % of what owed and look to sell off peices of FTP. We also don't know if the DOJ will be able to pay back 100% of US player funds or just some small amount of whats owed.

It makes sense for those who owe FTP money to be cautious until they know who and what amount and how DOJ/GBT intend to players. No point in just giving FTP more money to piss away. If the GBT deal falls its better barry still owes some money that can be used to pay FTP debts to players in a liquidation then give it to them now and have it spent on lobsters.

IMO. it looks like GBT doesn't want FTP after hving a good look at their books and is looking for excuses to pull out of the deal.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:14 PM   #191
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by useless View Post
Wow that's a quarter of the purchase price no wonder they're going public with this.
$18/$80 million to DoJ is about a quarter of the purchase price, but there are other liabilities.

What about all the player liabilities they owe RoW players? That is the important number
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:15 PM   #192
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by iMsoLucky0 View Post
Read the last sentence of his post again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMsoLucky0 View Post
Barry,

Why do you think US players will only be paid back some % of what is owed and not the total amount?
So 100% isn't some %? The last sentence sounds as if he's just guessing.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:16 PM   #193
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by dirtydiana73 View Post
That does not justify his actions in any way. He couldn't borrow from another pro who had money on there???
you should be more pissed off that FTP had outstanding loans to poker players of $18 million and less worried about the guys who took out the loans
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:17 PM   #194
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Kudos to Barry for being upfront with 2+2 about the situation. I think the community should give him a lot of credit for that.

I agree with the sentiment that the person owing money doesn't get a say in how his debt will be used when paid back. But that doesn't mean Barry is saying that that is a condition for whether he'll pay his debt or not. He seems to be simply defending players interests.

I wonder what PS thinks about all this.....
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:17 PM   #195
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by bbfg View Post
Why are US players so scared that they don't get paid by the DOJ? Isn't GBT paying a huge fine to the DOJ that will cover these refunds?
US players are scared because the DOJ has not promised to pay them back, GBT's fine will only cover about half the debt, and they are familiar with government "efficiency".

The most optimistic thing the gov. has said is: "The return of forfeited funds to victims of the alleged fraud may be possible, but will depend on several factors, including the successful conclusion of the litigation, the amount of funds seized and ordered forfeited by the court, and compliance with other procedures the Department of Justice may eventually establish regarding return of forfeited funds to victims who lost money as a result of the alleged fraudulent conduct.

We cannot predict the duration of proceedings in this case, other than to state that they will last for many months at the least. We will apprise victims of the alleged fraud of future developments as appropriate. General information regarding what is known as “remission” (i.e., return to victims) of funds that have been seized and forfeited is set forth in Department of Justice regulations found at 28 C.F.R. Part 9."
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:19 PM   #196
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

lol poker players.

Thanks for trying to do the right thing Barry. You're in a lose/lose situation from a public relations standpoint, but you're still trying to look out for the greater good of the US players anyway. Props.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:22 PM   #197
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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If the doj is keeping the U.S. liabilities(debts owed to American players) doesn't it make sense that they also keep the assets(debts owed by American players)?
Yes - but they are exchanging those assets for $80MM - so they are 'selling' those assets for a defined price.

Just general advice to everyone from my opinion - GBT is neither entirely a white knight or a vulture. They are trying to pay a 'good' price for which they can earn a solid, risk-adjusted rate of return. If they have learned - over time - that they have massively overbid for the assets for FTP - they owe it to their investors to re-negotiate. This happens every day.

Second, does anyone find it completely coincidental that the DOJ changes years of opinions during the diligence period re: the Wire Act application to online poker? It could be - but I doubt it personally. This arguably enhances the value of FTP.

This is all part of the 'game' of complex deals.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:23 PM   #198
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by iMsoLucky0 View Post
Barry,

Why do you think US players will only be paid back some % of what is owed and not the total amount?
it's not barry who thinks that. it's tapie group! that's much scarier.

Quote:
Tapie Group contacted me last week and asked if I would pay them directly. Their attorney offered me the opportunity to pay in installments so I could have a chance to use money owed to me. He even offered me the opportunity to discount my debt if the US players don’t get paid in full.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:23 PM   #199
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by LT22 View Post
you should be more pissed off that FTP had outstanding loans to poker players of $18 million and less worried about the guys who took out the loans
No I am pissed at everyone involved who thought it was ok to borrow money from FTP. I don't remember seeing the LOAN button in the cashier page on FTP. If they are considered the best of the best I don't see why they were in need of loans worth millions when they clearly had the ability to make that type of money. Deposit like the rest of us.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:26 PM   #200
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by augie_ View Post
it's not barry who thinks that. it's tapie group! that's much scarier.
It could also mean that the Tapie group is confident that US players are going to be repaid in full... (but both interpretations are possible obv)
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