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Old 02-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #651
LadyMuck
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Judging from that interview BG gave, it would be ideal if the DoJ were able to hold the money/administrate the situ. The threat of DoJ taking homes/property to make up the $18m might get some of these "pro's" the kick in the pants that they need to pay their debts. BG has made it clear he has no respect for TGroup right now.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:15 PM   #652
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

This thread is a great wake-up call for all the NVG tards that believe the high stakes pros are so flush with cash.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:15 PM   #653
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Mr. G. is a class act online and in person.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:19 PM   #654
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacob View Post
Interchange rich friend with company stealing money from its players.

Come on, these guys are pretty smart.

If Barry or anyone else had told me that FTP was loaning millions to players they had relationships with I'd have been concerned.
I doubt it, it was pretty much a universal assumption on here that ftp was worth > 1 billion before BF, so i doubt learning of a few million in loans would have bothered anyone.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:25 PM   #655
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachvac View Post
Also if FTP goes under they are most definitely not off any hook. FTP would go into bankruptcy and the assets, which include unpaid debts, would presumably be collected on by whoever arbitrated the bankruptcy (government in w/e country it's incorporated in?) and used to pay out stockholders/players/other owed parties. So even if FTP goes under these debts do not go away.
You think that a "player to player" transfer to BG's account on FTP is going to hold up in a court of law as an official loan with agreement to repay if nothing was signed? Something tells me not so likely. Now of course I have no idea the behind the scenes details, but if nothing was signed, then he and the rest of the players are not going to be legally required to repay anything shipped to them under the table. This whole damn thing is so ****ed up that I just want to puke.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:29 PM   #656
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Anyone who thinks BG should pay the DoJ and not GBT upon completion of the deal is wrong.

It works like this:

BG owes FTP 400K.
FTP1 forfeits assets to DoJ (including loans).
GBT buys assets from DoJ for 80 million (including loans).
GBT now owns all assets previously owned by FTP, including loans.

Therefore, BG owes 400K to GBT upon conclusion of the deal, not to the DoJ.

If I were GBT and if BG and the others was not willing to escrow money to GBT pending the conclusion of the deal, I'd say to the DoJ:

"Since there is 20 million outstanding in loans, we are only going to pay you 60 million for FTP assets. If you don't like that we are walking away from this deal."
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:31 PM   #657
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
DoTheMath;

Why not escrow the money? It gets paid to GBT when the sale is finalized, it gets put into the US-player refund pool if the sale falls apart.

Andrew
I think escrow might be a good idea, as long as it was clear what the eventual destination of the funds was, and what the triggering conditions were, and that both of these were appropriate to the situation. Barry had a legal obligation to pay back the debt if FTP called it in after BF. He had a moral reason to temporarily withhold payment if he had reason to fear the money would not go to FTP's players. Putting the money in escrow might have been a way to deal with the conflict between his legal and moral obligations.

I do not like the last part of your proposal.

If the deal falls though, the money should go to whomever ends up the owner of FTP's assets once the legal case is settled. If the DoJ gets forfeiture of the debt assets, the DoJ gets the money. If the DoJ can use the money to compensate players, it does so, but with the deal falling through, the players who get compensated by the DoJ are all players, not just US players.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:46 PM   #658
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Proof positive that Bitar was in the habit of giving big checks to poker pros.

Spoiler:
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:48 PM   #659
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheMath View Post
I do not like the last part of your proposal.

If the deal falls though, the money should go to whomever ends up the owner of FTP's assets once the legal case is settled. If the DoJ gets forfeiture of the debt assets, the DoJ gets the money. If the DoJ can use the money to compensate players, it does so, but with the deal falling through, the players who get compensated by the DoJ are all players, not just US players.
I understand that it's not fair, but I think there is <1% chance of the DOJ repaying ROW players.

Andrew
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:52 PM   #660
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Im sorry but at companies are designed to make a profit BG may not have known he was getting players money, he may have thought it was FT's money

BG is a class act,

1) he states he owes the money
2) he does not want to get a discount on the debt but pay all of it
3) he wants it to go to the players not a company that may not buy FT (although this should be US and ROW not just US like he said)
4) The guy has shown he is a moral guy and he gives so much away, he is not a bad guy from what we have all seen


Give the guy a chance and put pressure on the others to admit to their debt not jump down the throat of the 1st to come out. If you were Ivey or any of the others would you come out when BG is getting this crap, imagine what their thread would be like
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:54 PM   #661
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by GLUIPERIG View Post
You think that a "player to player" transfer to BG's account on FTP is going to hold up in a court of law as an official loan with agreement to repay if nothing was signed? Something tells me not so likely. Now of course I have no idea the behind the scenes details, but if nothing was signed, then he and the rest of the players are not going to be legally required to repay anything shipped to them under the table. This whole damn thing is so ****ed up that I just want to puke.
I have had to do real work since BF and have gotten into bankruptcy so this is really fairly uncomplicated imo. However, I only know US bankruptcy law and not the law wherever FTP was incorporated, which is where the bky would have to take place.

FTP's debts do not go away, and they do have to repay their creditors. Unfortunately for us unsecured creditors, which is what ALL players were, almost always get ****ed in a liquidation. This will be a reorganization however, where General Unsecured Creditors (GUC's) stand to be made whole. There is a catch though, they are typically not made whole with cash, they usually receive a debt rollover or an equity conversion (with restrictions).

To adress the "loans to players" these would likely be brought to court as fraudulent transfers, or preferential payments. These occur when the company pays money either does not receive reasonable value or pays people in a prefential manner. Both of these could claims could hold up in court and could be applied to the monies lent to the various creditors. FTP could then legally go after the creditors (in this case BG, PI and others) and their assets in order to recover the money.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:56 PM   #662
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

This may be relevant to Barry's interests.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/62...nstein-456917/
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:58 PM   #663
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by thabighurt35 View Post
FTP's debts do not go away, and they do have to repay their creditors. Unfortunately for us unsecured creditors, which is what ALL players were, almost always get ****ed in a liquidation True but if they want to be trusted in future they will have to offer a decent amount in the $ say at least $0.50 per $1.00 or people wont return.
n
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:01 PM   #664
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

For everyone that keeps saying BG is a class act regarding his disclosure of his debt, please realize he only disclosed it after another source disclosed it for him.

Nothing about this situation speaks towards BG handling this with class. He took a loan few had access to "years ago". He, to our knowledge, has yet to pay a dime. Then when this allegedly interest free loan was made due (the asked for the damn thing post black Friday) he refused to pay it. Had he paid it then, his name would not be on the books and would not have been disclosed.

In reality, BG saw black Friday go down and assumed his chances of not having to pay was >0%. Worst case scenario, he pays it back in full. But hell, he's been able to avoid paying this long... might as well hold out a little longer and see if he can skate on it.

Robin hood or not, he's a gambler and a gambler always looks out for his interests and his bankroll. So ****ed up that all these "pros" received loans and continue to gamble openly. If I had any kind of serious money locked up... well... they should be happy I don't. Can't imagine how someone with 6 figures+ feels.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:03 PM   #665
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
Hi Barry,

I don't think US players would find it *not* in their interests if you committed to paying GBT.

I understand your desire to ensure that money is returned to US players; it seems like you could contract a deal relatively easily with GBT that ensures your 400k repayment is included as a part of GBT's payment to the DOJ.

At this point, we'd rather have you pay your debt to FTP directly to GBT than have any further delays/roadblocks that could throw off the entire process.

As always, I appreciate you taking a proactive stance and responding publicly. I also appreciate your efforts on behalf of the players and am very confident in your good intentions.

Thanks,
Andrew
I agree with this 100%.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:07 PM   #666
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

yea so he only owes FTP 250k. Great post Barry Hopefully everything works out and we all get paid.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:10 PM   #667
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Rodriguez View Post
yea so he only owes FTP 250k. Great post Barry Hopefully everything works out and we all get paid.
No, he owes close to $400K. We've already hashed out the reading comprehension issues in this thread. You should head back to the remedial class.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:11 PM   #668
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacob View Post
Interchange rich friend with company stealing money from its players.
At the time Barry borrowed the money, he probably had no reason to think of FTP as a company stealing money from its players. Probably he had no reason to believe this until some time after BF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacob View Post
Come on, these guys are pretty smart.

If Barry or anyone else had told me that FTP was loaning millions to players they had relationships with I'd have been concerned.

Yet people much smarter than me saw no problem with the situation?
High stakes gamblers seem to be used to the concept of off-setting no-interest demand loans, and the possibility that demands might not be honored promptly, if at all. It is part of their way of doing business with each other. They also seem to consider it normal for a casino to loan money to high rollers. If this is correct, then I don't see why Barry would have seen something wrong with his loan arrangement with FTP.

However, as has been pointed out, online gambling regulators have rules in place that prohibit loans to players. Since he was not a site operator himself, Barry might not have known this. If he was used to a different reality in the B&M world, I don't think it is surprising he'd be unaware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacob View Post
I understand how hard moving large sums of money around can be, but that is no excuse for players to accept loans in this manner.
I think you more likely have a vague intellectual notion of the difficulty of moving large sums of money around, rather than the visceral understanding that comes with repeated personal experience.

People with your background and mine might look askance at such loan arrangments, but high rollers apparently live in a different universe. I'm not suprised they would consider this normal. The problem arises not from the players acting as players, but when such players end up in charge of an online gambling company, and continue to do what they are used to, rather than what the regulations require. I don't fault Barry very much in this matter, but I sure as hell fault those running FTP for making such loans and otherwise breaking the rules.

Another part of the problem is toothless regulators who are set up to facilitate gambling operations as an economic boost to isolated backwaters and who don't have the resources or inclination to effectively protect customers by detecting such rule violations and enforcing compliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJacob View Post
If all of this was on the up and up why wasn't this disclosed by anyone?
If all this was on the up-and-up, why would it be disclosed to the public? Legitimate business loans of individuals and private companies are not a matter subject to pubic disclosure.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:11 PM   #669
DispelTheMyth
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodriguez View Post
yea so he only owes FTP 250k. Great post Barry Hopefully everything works out and we all get paid.
incorrect

He owes FT $400k

Others owe him £150k and these players may or may not have the funds on FT so this is not to be discounted against his debt, people are not understanding this point.

Its not like you can go to Walmart with a best buy coupon is it
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:12 PM   #670
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Your as bad as them, u borrowed it a few years ago and have not paid it back just because the guy down the road owes me a 1000does not stop me paying my other debts..piss poor excuse
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:15 PM   #671
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Can we add a poll to this thread?

Q. Would you like Barry and other to commit to repay their loans to GBT upon completion of a deal to purchase FTP?

A.

i) Yes and I'm a U.S Player with funds on FTP.
ii) No and I'm a U.S player with funds on FTP.
iii) Yes and I'm a R.O.W player with funds on FTP.
iv) No and I'm a R.O.W player with funds on FTP.
v) Yes and I don't have funds on FTP
vi) No and I don't have funds on FTP

Make votes public
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:15 PM   #672
Pinkish
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Does it really matter what player base the money goes to? At the end of the day it is $400,000 that GBT does not have to spend. If Barry gave all the money to ROW players then GBT would just have to give $400,000 more towards repaying US players and vice versa.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:16 PM   #673
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by poker edge View Post
"If you owe money, which will probably happen sometime, make sure no one ever has to chase you down. Be dependable. You may need to borrow from one source to pay another. If there is a time that you don't want to pay your debts because it will leave you with a short bankroll, pay the debts anyway. You reliability in these matters will result in you having a virtual bankroll far greater than the actual money you have.

"It is the responsibility of the person who owes money to mention the amount owed and his plan for making payment whenever he meets his lender. This may alleviate the hard feelings and misunderstandings that can accompany indebtedness.''


- barryg
No love for this?!? This is from Ace Up My Sleeve, right? 2G2BT
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:16 PM   #674
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
If the deal goes through, GBT pays ROW players.

If the deal fails, there are no actors looking out for ROW players. The DOJ holds the only remaining assets, and ROW are not a priority for them.


Andrew
The DoJ, in response to a query from a non-US citizen, has stated that any person who is a qualifying victim is entitled to equal treatment from DoJ initiated compensation, regardless of residency or citzenship.

If the deal goes through, ROW players won't be compensated by the DoJ because those players will be getting compensated by GBT, and hence won't be victims anymore. If the deal does not go through, the DoJ will have to spread whatever money it has equally between US and ROW players. That is why the failure of the deal would be bad news for US players.

Sucks for y'all, but its the way it is.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:17 PM   #675
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by DispelTheMyth View Post
incorrect

He owes FT $400k

Others owe him £150k and these players may or may not have the funds on FT so this is not to be discounted against his debt, people are not understanding this point.

Its not like you can go to Walmart with a best buy coupon is it
you can go to pizza hut with a papa johns coupon
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