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Old 02-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #526
LifeT1lt
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by NEMplsJW View Post
Let the grown ups talk. I don't get all the hate for murderers....I mean, at least they are trying to apologize once they get caught.

Barry is obviously not as innocent as a lot of you want to think. He only came out with a statement because he had no other choice. He does have an opportunity to set a few things straight and come out with info about his pals before he once again, has to.
Great point sir, welcome to 2+2. Half these kids circle jerked "high stakes MTTs" on Full Tilt on PS, lol, and thought they were so cool.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:22 PM   #527
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Originally Posted by NEMplsJW View Post
Joey, you better talk nicer to me...er I mean if you want to encourage me to talk.

Also quit calling legit criticisms "attacks"...grown ups know the difference.
Yawn..... Now that that fail is over, people need to stop thinking emotionally like if Barry pays his debt everything is solved. His 400k is a tiny part of the debt. Get on the Known Degens that stole our money like lane flack, mike matusow, or that fat loser benyamine. They deserve to be attacked yet they were walking around the wsop last year like nothing was happening. Where is the outrage towards the scumbags that people actually see. It's just a bunch of talk online.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:24 PM   #528
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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He is clearly refusing to pay. He talks about maybe paying some DOJ fund. But he doesn’t owe the money to a DOJ fund. Even if he paid the money to a DOJ fund he would still owe the money to FT
Currently there is no FT. I agree, I don't think he should say "I want this money to go into the DOJ pool", but I also think he should not pay GBT until GBT officially takes over FTP assets. Until that happens, GBT is not entitled to this outstanding debt or any other debt that any other player owes the company formally known as FTP.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:27 PM   #529
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I want to hear from Ivey or one of the individuals who owes at least seven figures. Their debts are significant and they should feel more compelled to make things right. If not, the deal falling through is going to be placed on their heads whether it's actually a primary cause or not.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:28 PM   #530
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

hopefully now we can put to rest the blind respect for high stakes pros

**** them all
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:31 PM   #531
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by GLUIPERIG View Post
Currently there is no FT. I agree, I don't think he should say "I want this money to go into the DOJ pool", but I also think he should not pay GBT until GBT officially takes over FTP assets. Until that happens, GBT is not entitled to this outstanding debt or any other debt that any other player owes the company formally known as FTP.
I don't think GBT is just trying to get him to get him to pay money to GBT that GBT would be allowed to keep if they walked from the deal. It looks like to me like it would go the FT group of compines.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #532
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by GLUIPERIG View Post
1. $400K is not going to get ANYONE paid (ROW or US) so whether he pays now or after a deal is struck shouldn't really matter.
2. If $400K is a deal breaker for GBT then that's a major LOL!!!
3. If anyone of us were in any of these FTP pro's situation, we would probably be doing the same thing. It's ridiculous that it's come to this, but at the same time, all of these guys were just handed a 6-7 figure freeroll. Sure, they SHOULD pay back the debts, but if FTP goes under, they are off the hook for what was loaned to them. These guys clearly don't care what happens to the rest of the players and are just looking at the best line for THEMSELVES. I'd say about 98% of us would do the same thing...and anyone who says otherwise, is just saying that because you want your FTP money back.
400K is not a joke, it's in bad faith if it's a debt that will never be paid, and you as a investor, have to buy it as an asset. Just because you are paying 80 million dollars doesn't mean the other side can gouge you for 400K.

and no if I owed someone 400K, I would pay it.

Also why do you not see that the money Barry was lent, is another players deposit.

He owes money to Full Tilt poker, so he should pay Full Tilt poker, it's really that simple.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #533
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

And think about all the massaging most of you did in regards to the high stakes pro's. Do any of you find it shocking that when push came to shove, they turned out to be scum bags? Just because someone makes a lot of money gambling doesnt make them cool or super legit.

All of these guys are pieces of crap IMO and I guarentee the same about the PS pro\s. Gambling has always been a long drive down scummy lane.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #534
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry, your stance doesn't make any sense. Firstly, the DOJ & GBT spent the month of October negotiating a deal. They agreed that if FTP forfeited all their assets, GBT would pay $80 million for some of these assets, such as the software, player database and the money that you owe! What right is it of yours to say that that deal is unacceptable? Do you not think that if the DOJ thought GBT would agree to the exact same deal sans the asset of your debt, that they would have negotiated for it? And out of all the parties involved (DOJ, FTP, GBT, you), the DOJ has the biggest '**** the rest of the world, it's all about America' stance (imo).

I also don't get why you think it's your right to redistribute money from GBT to US players. GBT are innocent in all this. They don't owe money to anyone. They don't have our money. How about you use your time to put pressure on the people that do have it? GBT are paying $80 million and US players are owed $150 million. How about the $40 million that FTP paid Phil Ivey, $30 million of which was player funds. What makes you think that GBT should voluntarily give up an asset which they legitimately and legally agreed to buy, yet Phil Ivey shouldn't give up his illegitimate, illegal, stolen funds? Your whole stance comes across incredibly self serving ('self' = you and your friends). The DOJ is at most $70 million short under this deal, likely less with seized Bitar assets and so on, certainly way less than the $300 million that was paid out in stolen player funds.

Look, the DOJ agreed this deal because they thought it was best for Americans. Let's get the deal done, get ROW players paid back, see what the kitty is for US players (should be at least 2/3 imo), and then put pressure on the actual people who have player funds to pay it back.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #535
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

This should be a pressing matter for the ones mentioned in the news. Meaning Ivey, Benyamine, Flack, Lindgren, Matusow, and Greenstein (There are others with smaller debts, but they are just not mentioned).

I understand that they havent given a statement yet, but all of them should make a statement in a matter of days. Being silent after news like this comes out makes them look really, really bad. It's not just a rumor that they owe them money, it's a fact when it comes from GBT's lawyers. They know what has been going on behind the scenes of FTP after being in this for months.

thumbs up for Greenstein for making a statement. thumbs down for not paying ASAP. poor judgment from him.

Also, someone said $400k is not going to make or break this deal. Probably true, but $18 million most likely would. If Greenstein would publicly pay his debt, it would put a lot of pressure on the rest of them.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #536
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by PartyGirlUK View Post
Barry, your stance doesn't make any sense. .
Sure it does if you think about it.

Its a pile of rubbish because he never intended on paying the debt. Another news flash for you all, none of these guys are as rich as you think they are. If they were, 400k would be pocket change. Most of them are broke right now
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:45 PM   #537
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Ivey and Matusow presented themselves in the past as players who are so pissed off when it comes to Full Tilt situation.

Now it comes out that these players owe money to Full Tilt. Thats unbelievable.

Did all who are involved in this great game forgot what it means to be respected as sincere people?

Guess money comes first even it is not the own money.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:47 PM   #538
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Thank you PartyGirlUK, its just not fair that some of us maybe could have used a few thousand dollars for whater reason in our lives, and a guy like this can, just write a statement, and make it seem like it's o.k. Its really not. It hurts.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:53 PM   #539
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Why was/isn't there all this clamoring for repayment of debts toward the folks that free-rolled the phantom deposits? Talk about bunch of mob mentality hypocrites!
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:53 PM   #540
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by shortbusbully View Post
To be fair Barry would have never come public with the fact that he owed money if it wasn't in the media. So this is a pr move by him imo, he has zero interest in repaying the debt but he probably will if he's assured they will use it to pay back us players, to save face and reputation. Rest assured though if this never went public none of these scumbags would have ever cared or thought to pay it back. Im not at all surprised are you??
Of course he wouldn't go public with it (i.e., post about it on 2+2) if it wasn't in the media. Why would he? Why would anyone? It's his private business.

However, I do have faith that the way Barry handles the situation is the same whether it's handled as private business, or it's become public.

Also, the fact that he has openly and reasonably responded here with his intentions and side of the story is far more than anyone else has done.

I'll just hold my breath until Ivey, Lindgren, et al post on 2+2, fielding questions from 2+2 randoms, explaining their side of the story, and with such reasonable intentions.

The hate ITT against Barry is silly.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:54 PM   #541
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Cliffs? View Post
Why was/isn't there all this clamoring for repayment of debts toward the folks that free-rolled the phantom deposits? Talk about bunch of mob mentality hypocrites!
list names and the mob will start
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:54 PM   #542
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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400K is not a joke, it's in bad faith if it's a debt that will never be paid, and you as a investor, have to buy it as an asset. Just because you are paying 80 million dollars doesn't mean the other side can gouge you for 400K.

and no if I owed someone 400K, I would pay it.

Also why do you not see that the money Barry was lent, is another players deposit.

He owes money to Full Tilt poker, so he should pay Full Tilt poker, it's really that simple.
Of course 400K is a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things and all the $$$ that is involved in this takeover, it is not.

I do see that this is another players deposit...I'm not blind or ignorant, but if you think that him paying $400K is going to get you, me or anyone else paid, you're fooling yourself. I would be willing to bet my measily $4K roll that's on there that he would 100% pay in full as soon as an actual official deal was struck, released and a plan to pay players was intact. Other than that, the fact that he or anyone else involved can just sit back and roll the dice that these debts get whiped clean is smart on THEIR part. Sucks for us, but that's what happened. All these guys were friends with the crooked owners. How many times do you think they all sat in some private room and just laughed at all the $$$$ they were taking in? They probably didn't stop to think that this could all blow up in their faces like it did.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:00 PM   #543
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Cliffs? View Post
Why was/isn't there all this clamoring for repayment of debts toward the folks that free-rolled the phantom deposits? Talk about bunch of mob mentality hypocrites!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsRainingMen View Post
list names and the mob will start
Really? I call your bluff. There have been names out there for a while. Quick search reveals:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...s-ftp-1103535/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...-tilt-1102970/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...advice-954451/

and other threads on the topic.

Last edited by Cliffs?; 02-03-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:01 PM   #544
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

DOJ is gonna get 80mil for US players from GBT as they negotiated for that. Whoever has a loan should pay to GBT, otherwise that 80mil number should be adjusted for loans and lowered.

My 2c as a row player who wants this deal to finally happen.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:02 PM   #545
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by GLUIPERIG View Post
Of course 400K is a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things and all the $$$ that is involved in this takeover, it is not.

I do see that this is another players deposit...I'm not blind or ignorant, but if you think that him paying $400K is going to get you, me or anyone else paid, you're fooling yourself. I would be willing to bet my measily $4K roll that's on there that he would 100% pay in full as soon as an actual official deal was struck, released and a plan to pay players was intact. Other than that, the fact that he or anyone else involved can just sit back and roll the dice that these debts get whiped clean is smart on THEIR part. Sucks for us, but that's what happened. All these guys were friends with the crooked owners. How many times do you think they all sat in some private room and just laughed at all the $$$$ they were taking in? They probably didn't stop to think that this could all blow up in their faces like it did.
Commenting on the bolded part:

So if I borrow money from someone, I should not pay back ASAP because there is always a chance the person I borrowed from would die, and my debt would get wiped clean? It doesnt matter if players get paid or not. HE BORROWED $400K FROM FTP, HE SHOULD PAY IT BACK. It really is that simple.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:02 PM   #546
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry has done a lot for the poker community and still now he's one of the few people that I have total respect for, he's really open and I always have a great time watching his interviews. This is slightly disappointing in the sense that it looks like he could have paid back earlier and didn't but he still deserves a ton of credit.

Maybe do an interview with Rikard?
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:04 PM   #547
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

So a person with a long history of being a stand-up guy comes on here and tells us about his situation with money owed on FTP and lays out his feelings on the matter. He says he's 100% committed to pay back and able to do so, but wants to make sure the money goes to the right people. Agree or disagree, I don't see how you can hate Barry or lecture him. If he isn't credible than who is? Maybe you feel differently than he does, but angry name calling seems silly.
Quote:
Of course he wouldn't go public with it (i.e., post about it on 2+2) if it wasn't in the media. Why would he? Why would anyone? It's his private business.

However, I do have faith that the way Barry handles the situation is the same whether it's handled as private business, or it's become public.

Also, the fact that he has openly and reasonably responded here with his intentions and side of the story is far more than anyone else has done.
I guess just put me in with Moki.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #548
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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So you actually want to place trust in their accounting practices? If anything, I think everything about the company should rightfully be brought into question and differentiating where the money came from isn't as clear cut as you try to make out.
I don't place any trust in anything coming from FTP. Questioning it is fine. Stating unequivocally that BARRYG STOLE OUR MONIES WHEN HE BORROWED!!! is what I would question.

That being said, and I'm admittedly not an expert on this topic, what I've read (most from the S:P) people led me to believe that FTP was solvent "a few years ago". Without knowing the exact dates of the loan, or the exact date FTP went from being profitable to borrowing player money to fund their business, this isn't something anyone here can answer definitively, but its certainly possible if the loan was "a few years ago" that no player money was involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Terry View Post
What was the point in time that they had enough to cover player deposits?
I don't know the exact answer to that. I suspect you don't either. But if he did borrow the money "a few years ago", then it's certainly possible no player money was involved in the loan.


The entire point of my post was really to point out that there are many hysterical and needlessly fear/anger mongering posters, although this being NVG I wouldn't expect anything less.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:10 PM   #549
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by GLUIPERIG View Post
Of course 400K is a lot of money, but in the grand scheme of things and all the $$$ that is involved in this takeover, it is not.

I do see that this is another players deposit...I'm not blind or ignorant, but if you think that him paying $400K is going to get you, me or anyone else paid, you're fooling yourself. I would be willing to bet my measily $4K roll that's on there that he would 100% pay in full as soon as an actual official deal was struck, released and a plan to pay players was intact. Other than that, the fact that he or anyone else involved can just sit back and roll the dice that these debts get whiped clean is smart on THEIR part. Sucks for us, but that's what happened. All these guys were friends with the crooked owners. How many times do you think they all sat in some private room and just laughed at all the $$$$ they were taking in? They probably didn't stop to think that this could all blow up in their faces like it did.
It's not the dollar figure that matters, it is the attitude of the "bad faith" party that can kill a deal. If someone made me purchase an asset that didn't exist, no matter how small, I would back away on principle.

You pay your debts to who loaned it to you. It's unethical to create self-determined conditions on when and if you will pay.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:12 PM   #550
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LOL@people questioning peoples criticisms of Barry. He would have never paid up/still might not if he wasnt outed...Why on Earth should this guy get accolades? Because he was forced to come clean to save his rep? Paleeze....and it's more then others have done....pft.

What else are you hiding Barry?
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