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Old 02-02-2012, 07:20 PM   #26
SneakySteve
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

wow this is pretty SICK!
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:22 PM   #27
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by smooth101 View Post
I think he meant he only owes 150K now.
no
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:23 PM   #28
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Ty for this Barry. fwiw I think this thread should be modded heavier than most in NVG. Remove all the useless trolling imo.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:23 PM   #29
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry is solid
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:23 PM   #30
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by barryg1 View Post
If I were to make a deal with you it would look like I had turned my back on the best interests of the American players.

Even though the terms are easier for me if I deal with you and it will fulfill my legal obligation, I have to see how things work out with the DOJ and try to make good on my moral obligation to the US players.
I appreciate Barry's candour, and his concern for all of the players affected by the Full Tilt saga.

The lone point which I take issue with is that which I've quoted above. Any money that is owed to Full Tilt rightfully belongs to the entire player base, and not specifically to US players. That is, you do not specifically have a 'moral obligation to the US players', but rather an obligation to all Full Tilt players, since it's our money you borrowed. Since roughly half of the outstanding player balances at Full Tilt belong to players outside the US, it seems to me the equitable solution would be to repay half of any debts to whatever entity will pay back US players, and half to whatever entity will repay Rest-Of-World players.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:25 PM   #31
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Hi Barry,

I don't think US players would find it *not* in their interests if you committed to paying GBT.

I understand your desire to ensure that money is returned to US players; it seems like you could contract a deal relatively easily with GBT that ensures your 400k repayment is included as a part of GBT's payment to the DOJ.

At this point, we'd rather have you pay your debt to FTP directly to GBT than have any further delays/roadblocks that could throw off the entire process.

As always, I appreciate you taking a proactive stance and responding publicly. I also appreciate your efforts on behalf of the players and am very confident in your good intentions.

Thanks,
Andrew
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:26 PM   #32
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

I am as big a Barry fan as anyone. I appreciate that you aren't hiding out but actually taking the time to respond; however, the response disappoints me.

Why do you insist that your funds should only go to pay back USA players? The money you borrowed was provided from all players, not just USA players. You were not a rep of this site, and have no obligation to protect Americans over anyone else. If you owe this money, and you're clear legally that this debt is now in the hands of Tapie group, I don't agree that you have the right to dictate the terms under which you are willing to repay.

I'm also curious as to what the process was for you to borrow 400K - just to get a bit better insight into how badly they mismanaged. Was this just you calling someone and asking for it (I'd also be very curious who exactly you made the request to).
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:27 PM   #33
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Sounds like quite the PR piece if you ask me. However I do believe he has the best intentions.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:27 PM   #34
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

My sentiments too Andrew
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:29 PM   #35
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessWatcher View Post
Why do you insist that your funds should only go to pay back USA players? The money you borrowed was provided from all players, not just USA players. You were not a rep of this site, and have no obligation to protect Americans over anyone else. If you owe this money, and you're clear legally that this debt is now in the hands of Tapie group, I don't agree that you have the right to dictate the terms under which you are willing to repay.
This.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:32 PM   #36
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

You are quite the stand up guy Barry One of the few of the older generation of poker players I truly respect and desire to be like one day.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:33 PM   #37
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What was Barry's screen name on FT?
Just curious, fwiw I have no issues with Barry's actions in this matter.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:35 PM   #38
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
Hi Barry,

I don't think US players would find it *not* in their interests if you committed to paying GBT.

I understand your desire to ensure that money is returned to US players; it seems like you could contract a deal relatively easily with GBT that ensures your 400k repayment is included as a part of GBT's payment to the DOJ.

At this point, we'd rather have you pay your debt to FTP directly to GBT than have any further delays/roadblocks that could throw off the entire process.

As always, I appreciate you taking a proactive stance and responding publicly. I also appreciate your efforts on behalf of the players and am very confident in your good intentions.

Thanks,
Andrew
THIS!!!!

if there is no deal done by GBT then no one will get paid!

if you want to do the players any good, pay your debts back as soon as you can!

if every pro that owes money to the site acts as you do, the deal will probably collapse so please re-think it!

I also obv believe in your good intentions, but this is probably the wrong way.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:35 PM   #39
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by SpecialOne View Post
This.
This +1!

What Barry and the other pros have done is wrong and to try and spin it any other way makes this much worse. Does that mean foreign players who owe FTP money should hold out and pay the non U. S. players???? Pay your debt and be clear of this mess.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:36 PM   #40
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

i wouldn't want to pay full tilt 150k either barry

/thread
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #41
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by giftofgab View Post
barry admitted he borrowed the money. Why shouldnt he have to pay it back regardless of how tapie uses the money
Because he doesn't owe the money to the Tapie Group. He owes it to Full Tilt. This obligation (BG -> Full Tilt) would be considered an asset on the company's books, assuming they actually kept books as opposed to Bitar writing things in crayons on cocktail napkins. But since TG hasn't actually acquired FT (and its assets) yet, it has no business laying its hands on any of these debts.

Basically what TG is doing is offering to forgive a portion of BG's debt to FT in exchange for sending them money, even though TG doesn't actually have the legal right to forgive this debt at this point. From BG's perspective it would be a little risky because if the acquisition of FT by BG falls through for whatever reason (*ahem Chris Ferguson*), BG would have gotten nothing in exchange for whatever % of this debt he gives to BG. This risk may be small, but it's there.

And of course there's the ethical point that BG makes that this money belongs to the players and not TG. There's also a financial aspect to this point. Let's say TG is willing cut Barry a deal where they'd forgive 25% of his debt if he pays TG directly. TG then acquires FT and negotiates a deal with the DOJ where the US players end up collecting only 50 cents on the dollar (because there isn't enough to go around). Who wins and who loses here? Barry wins because he extinguishes a $400k debt for only $300k. TG wins because it gets $300k that it wouldn't have collected if it acquired FT with this debt outstanding (I'm assuming here that the DOJ will require that all debts outstanding to FT will, if collected, go into the DOJ player payout pool). Who loses? The players, as usual.

BG is absolutely in the right here. Until such time as the contours of the arrangement to pay out the players are clear, neither he nor anyone who owes money to FT should give it to the Tapie Group.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #42
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
Hi Barry,

I don't think US players would find it *not* in their interests if you committed to paying GBT.

I understand your desire to ensure that money is returned to US players; it seems like you could contract a deal relatively easily with GBT that ensures your 400k repayment is included as a part of GBT's payment to the DOJ.

At this point, we'd rather have you pay your debt to FTP directly to GBT than have any further delays/roadblocks that could throw off the entire process.

As always, I appreciate you taking a proactive stance and responding publicly. I also appreciate your efforts on behalf of the players and am very confident in your good intentions.

Thanks,
Andrew

I agree. I hold BarryG in high regard but I think he should just repay his debt. FTP owes people from all over the world, not just us in the USA. Everybody who owes FTP should make it right so everybody can move on and get over the trauma of losing FTP and in the case of many, all online poker.

Even though we appreciate it, there is no moral obligation for Barry G. or Tom D. or Phil G. to repay U.S. players or act in such a way that U.S. players will get priority. Just do what you have to in order for things to move along.

Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #43
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Don't think that's what he meant. I think he still owes 400k but in turn is owed $150k by others
It's really an strange post from Barry and has nothing little do with with we USA players. If anything, it's a private matter between FTP, people that owe Barry money (not FTP), and the Feds (maybe).

Thats how I read it also. If Barry owes/borrowed money from FTP (and anyone else that does owe to FTP) needs to take care of it with the entity that is FTP. If the other company is buying it out, they become the owners of FTP and Barry needs to work out a deal with them, regardless of who is owed money in the USA. As for paying less on the debt to the parent company by working out a deal, there isn't anything wrong with it in my book. It's called working out a deal that all parties find fair. If Barry is owned $150K from other players, it's up to Barry to collect that money also just like the new company is trying to collect it from Barry for money owned to them. The USA players are owned millions. Accordingly, that needs to be repaired between the new entity and the Feds but has little to do with anyone owing borrowed money to either or from others. I'd of course like to get paid back for money trapped on FTP but I don't see how Barry's efforts benefit any of us. It was really a poor business practice for FTP to give those huge lines of credit to begin with (not that any of the FTP Red pros weren't good for it) but now it has become somewhat of an issue as Barry is pointing out.

With all that said, I"ve never found Barry to be anything but a charitable person prone to give the shirt of his back to those in need.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:38 PM   #44
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by barryg1 View Post
I have been inundated with calls from all the poker media sites regarding this, so it's easier for me to respond in one place. Obviously, 2+2 has become the main place where people discuss online poker so I'm posting here. It would be nice if everyone who owes money discusses it openly so there is a better chance that they will make good on their debts and the money will end up in the pockets of players with balances on FTP.

My statement to the press and the poker community:

I borrowed $400,000 to play on Full Tilt a few years ago, before PokerStars had high stakes games. I didn’t pay it back, hoping that some people who owed me and had money on Full Tilt would pay me there so I could use that against the debt. (I'm only owed about $150,000 now). I have assumed when this case is resolved, the DOJ will allow methods for dealing with debt to FTP.

Tapie Group contacted me last week and asked if I would pay them directly. Their attorney offered me the opportunity to pay in installments so I could have a chance to use money owed to me. He even offered me the opportunity to discount my debt if the US players don’t get paid in full. I told him that I have never paid less than I owe on any debt and I would rather wait until the DOJ establishes a fund for the US players. I don't believe my debt has any impact on the sale to the Tapie group as they have alleged. I was concerned about taking money due to US players and giving it to the Tapie Group because it is understood that the Tapie Group won't be the one paying the US players. On the other hand, I realize that the total debt counting other players is substantial, especially because I would include in that tally any money taken from FTP once it had become insolvent.

Here is an excerpt from the letter I sent to their attorney:

“The consensus in the poker community is that all money owed to Full Tilt or taken by investors after the company became insolvent should be used to pay back player’s funds. If I were to make a deal with you it would look like I had turned my back on the best interests of the American players.

Even though the terms are easier for me if I deal with you and it will fulfill my legal obligation, I have to see how things work out with the DOJ and try to make good on my moral obligation to the US players. I assume at some time in the future the DOJ will establish a pool of funds from Full Tilt’s assets that will be used to pay off some percentage of the player balances that are owed.”
Why would you borrow money from FTP and pay back to US players? You borrowed money from FTP, not US players. You should pay back FTP, not US players.

Not only does it not make any sense, it is a bit a slap in the face of non-US players, who have more money on the line than US players, btw.

I respect you and obviously don't think you had bad intentions in mind here, but I would suggest if FTP is asking for the money, you pay it back. Put something in the contract that if GBT eventually doesn't end up owning FTP (if they don't already), they need to pay it back.

I understand this must be a ****ty and difficult situation for you, but GBT is offering the solution to the worst thing that has ever happened to poker, I think you shoud do what positively impacts that possibility.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #45
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Because he doesn't owe the money to the Tapie Group. He owes it to Full Tilt. This obligation (BG -> Full Tilt) would be considered an asset on the company's books, assuming they actually kept books as opposed to Bitar writing things in crayons on cocktail napkins. But since TG hasn't actually acquired FT (and its assets) yet, it has no business laying its hands on any of these debts.

Valid point but I FTP has now been taken over?
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #46
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry is awesome. I agree that Ivey, Lindgren, and these other Full Tilt Pros better inform players of what is going on.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #47
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Payback the 400K you owe to the Tapie Group (they are the pre-owners of FTP) and collect from the people who owe you. Maybe in the poker world transactions of money can work like that, but this is now a business problem and you have to pay back the money from the source you borrowed from and can't use other peoples debts who owe you. This post is insulting, all these pros who owe money are hoping that full tilt fold so they don't have to pay back a cent....its so gross.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 02-03-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #48
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Geez, what's wrong with you people...

BG borrowed $400k to play on FTP from FTP.

Others that played on FTP owed BG money separately from the $400k loan BG received from FTP and BG was expecting these people to pay him on FTP so he could repay the loan.

This all happened years ago which raises the question why FTP wasn't pursuing this debt in all this time but FTP seemed to get off on loaning everyone money.

If BG paid the debt now it would go into the scumbag of a company that is/was FTP or to GBT while there has been no confirmation of what would happen as far as players getting paid is concerned. The DOJ doesn't even seem to have publicly confirmed if a deal is in the works so why should BG hand over money to what could just be some random french dude.

BG is a boss who plays high stakes poker and lets asian hotties tickle his beard. He does not follow every post about what's going on with FTP. Stop nitpicking that he only mentioned US players.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #49
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Thanks for responding. As much as everyone else is going to criticize you for borrowing money from FTP, at least you seem to be up front and honest about not only what happened but the actual amount of which you owe.

It would be great if people such as yourself and Durrrr could put a little pressure on those who have also been named here, Ivey/Benyamine/Lindgren ect, to have them make a public statement or at the very least actually repay their debts to FTP or whom ever, as to make the process of refunding everyone's money smoother/faster.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:44 PM   #50
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by giftofgab View Post
barry admitted he borrowed the money. Why shouldnt he have to pay it back regardless of how tapie uses the money
This

WTF, you don’t get to decide where the money you owe to someone gets spent!

Like I am going to tell my bank that I am not going to pay my mortgage repayments unless they give the money to "insert needy cause here".
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