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Old 02-03-2012, 08:11 AM   #426
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by INSART View Post
#

sounds like a fckn joke, lame excuse, whatever. I already lost all my respect for the whole FTP "pros" and now for you too Mr Greenstein. Doesn't seem like you are really trying to get players reimbursed. Surely there has to be some way for you and your dear friends to work out a solution w/ GBT that satisfies both US/non US players. You keep talking about morale and the right thing to do while some of us are sitting at home waiting for our money for 6 months now and have a hard time paying bills while you make 400k out of nothing. The way i see it: you partly owe ME money and the best way for ME (and i think im speaking for most ppl here) getting my money back is by FTP coming back. If you decide to stand in the way of a potential comeback you are partly responsible for us getting scammed.

also, how do you think you are going to pay back players directly? how are you supposed to know how much each individual had on their accounts etc.? you think every1 will say the truth about their balances and get reimbursed accordingly? what about ppl who dont post and read on 2+2 and dont have sources to contact you? even if you were to make a pool for former ftp players there would be no way to gaurantee fairness. the only right thing to do for you is pay back what you owe. same goes for anyone other involved in this mess, our former 'idols' who are practically stealing from us. you got some nerves talking about morale here. seriously.
this. I still find it absurdly confusing to see how pros borrowed money from an, as it turned out, insolvent company and dont pay back IMMEADIATELY after this gets public. I mean how are these guys sleeping at night knowing how thousands of us has been put into a life changing, even existence threatening situation. Dont you think every single seccond about this and how much you owe people that are pretty much broke compared to you? How can people still be so ignorant/evil/whatever you may call them to not work with players here. Making a statement about this is THE ABSOLUTE LEAST they should do, so stop worshipping BG. While it is good of him to speak about that it is in no way excusable to not speak about this for so long. It was simply his duty to make this public, and even more so after being accused of this very problem.
Not even talking about others who do not make a statement but waste their time playing 100k`s.

I see that you shouldnt blindly send the money to whoever is left of FTP but JESUS if all of the debtors would work together in a coordinated manner than this **** would be resolved way more quickly. No more bull**** lawyer conversations that take ages when everyone of us is dying a little more each day.

plus there are probably thousands of people here like me who have money stuck on ftp but dont post here. Lots of people just reading/following the threads as they develope since it doesnt make a real difference to add another opinion to this whole mess. If there would only be a coordinated way of all of us to take action we might be more "powerful". Not spreading opinions/rumors and arguing about different scenarios on how things would be if... and what if blablabla...
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:14 AM   #427
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by shortbusbully View Post
I'm just curious what was going through peoples minds when they decided it was ok to loan true loser degens like layne flack and mike mattusow huge sums of money??

Ivey i get, but he turned out to be just as much of a scumbag if not bigger than those 2.
This really is the million dollar question. At least with guys like barry g and ivey u think youll probly get repaid (although obviously this was false too), but with guys like benyamine, layne flack, mattusow??? I mean u KNOW you're not getting paid back by those degens... The mismanagement and buddy system no interest gigundous loans was such a ****ing joke and just shows you how idiotic and greedy degenerate gamblers are.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:15 AM   #428
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

wtf is wrong with people, barryg is one of the good guys you morons. At least he told us he is willing to pay back his debts while the big thieves such as ferguson, lederer, bitar etc owes huge amount of money they won't pay back.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:17 AM   #429
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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wtf is wrong with people, barryg is one of the good guys you morons. At least he told us he is willing to pay back his debts while the big thieves such as ferguson, lederer, bitar etc owes huge amount of money they won't pay back.
You don't get it do you. They borrowed our money, had no intentions of paying it back, and are certainly a large part of the reason that we will never see our money again. You do realize that if this never went public they would have pretended it didn't happen right? He's not a good guy dude, hes trying to put a pr spin on the fact that he borrowed money with no intentions of paying it back, in fact, he borrowed our ****ing money....
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:19 AM   #430
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by shortbusbully View Post
I'm just curious what was going through peoples minds when they decided it was ok to loan true loser degens like layne flack and mike mattusow huge sums of money??

Ivey i get, but he turned out to be just as much of a scumbag if not bigger than those 2.

Yes...

who would authorize large loans to Layne (let alone the alleged 2 million), and what would their motive be for doing so?

Seriously, does anyone have a name? I'd like to apply for an unsecured, interest-free, no-time-limit loan via this person should they start a new business.

Last edited by tuccotrading; 02-03-2012 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:19 AM   #431
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by teddyFBI View Post
But WTF: you owe FTP money, pay it back.
I disagree. FTP is an out-of-business operation under indictment that is still cutting cheques for rent, staff, etc and still has a chance of going under. Why dump 400k into that pit?

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Originally Posted by teddyFBI View Post
(plenty of ways you could structure it, like a promisory note to be used ONLY to reimburse players.).
While that might sound good, that's legally virtually impossible to do.


Much better to wait and be sure that the 400k can go to players IMO.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:20 AM   #432
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What the f!!! The guy admitted he owed and will pay back as soon as its clear the money is going to the players. You people badgering him are something else. How many pros come on here and talk honestly with you? How many respond to you at all??? The guy does the right thing by us over and over but yet you micro losers still attack him. Thank you Barry. I have much respect for you and how you handle things. Don't let the small percentage of people (who probably don't even have any money in full tilt) bother you.




Let
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:24 AM   #433
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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What the f!!! The guy admitted he owed and will pay back as soon as its clear the money is going to the players. You people badgering him are something else. How many pros come on here and talk honestly with you? How many respond to you at all??? The guy does the right thing by us over and over but yet you micro losers still attack him. Thank you Barry. I have much respect for you and how you handle things. Don't let the small percentage of people (who probably don't even have any money in full tilt) bother you.




Let
You realize he only is coming out with this because it went public right? He's known about this for how long now, 3 years? He never had intentions of paying the money back it's that simple. Now that its public hes only doing this to save his Public perception. Don't be blinded by yet another wolf in sheeps clothing. These guys are not good guys. Is that not obvious enough yet?
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:24 AM   #434
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by LaplaceTransform View Post
At least he told us he is willing to pay back his debts while the big thieves such as ferguson owe huge amounts of money they won't pay back and has the audacity to be by trying to get another $14mil from the company
FYP
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:25 AM   #435
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by joeyrulesall View Post
What the f!!! The guy admitted he owed and will pay back as soon as its clear the money is going to the players."
Let
are you kiddin???? He admitted it AFTER the publication!!!! Do you don't think there was plenty of time to pay back this money before????
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:26 AM   #436
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by LaplaceTransform View Post
wtf is wrong with people, barryg is one of the good guys you morons. At least he told us he is willing to pay back his debts while the big thieves such as ferguson, lederer, bitar etc owes huge amount of money they won't pay back.
are you ****ing serious? so paying back what you owe makes you a good person? in my understanding paying debts back is just normal and anything less than doing so makes you a scumbag (in most cases fwiw). You sound like we are supposed to be grateful that he's willing to pay back what he owes but still i don't see any fair solution provided by him at this point. A man of his intelligence should know that every kind of promise he makes other than paying GBT is probably gonna cost less than what he owes and won't be satisfactory for most of the concerned players. Plus it's not like we sat down with him and actually gave him and the other pros money, the just took it and now we're supposed to be grateful for what exactly? sure, he is better than the rest of the gang, owing less and at least speaking in public which we can't say for the scumbag ivey but that's just relative perspective. just because ivey & co are such *******s doesn't make Mr Greenstein a saint.

edit: besides, any other solution than FTP coming back would take much longer for us to get our money back. remember durrrs promise to pay $1mio? when do you think this is gonna happen? it could take months, even years before everything is worked out and we can def. say that FTP is done. Then it would take a lot of time to figure out how to pay and i still don't understand how anyone can prove how much $ they had on their ftp accounts and so on.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 02-03-2012 at 10:27 AM. Reason: circumventing the profanity filter
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:29 AM   #437
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by milmon34 View Post
You realize he only is coming out with this because it went public right? He's known about this for how long now, 3 years? He never had intentions of paying the money back it's that simple. Now that its public hes only doing this to save his Public perception. Don't be blinded by yet another wolf in sheeps clothing. These guys are not good guys. Is that not obvious enough yet?
While I agree some of the people listed may actually have no intention to pay these debts unless forced, this post is ridiculous.

So anyone who doesn't pre-emptively announce their private debts to the world is a welcher?

Are you suggesting that because Barry hasn't posted on 2+2 about any other debts that he may or may not have that he has no intention of paying those back either.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:30 AM   #438
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quite surprising that Gus Hansen is not on the list. He lost 11 million $$ between March 09 and September 2010. It's very likely that he got a loan. Maybe he paid it back?
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:30 AM   #439
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

In the end they're all going to get theirs. Whats ivey left with? anything he wins now goes to his ex wife, LOL at no prenup champ. I hope they all rot in hell because they are all thiefs, liars, and scumbags.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:33 AM   #440
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Posemuckel View Post
Quite surprising that Gus Hansen is not on the list. He lost 11 million $$ between March 09 and September 2010. It's very likely that he got a loan. Maybe he paid it back?
He sold an internet poker company in europe i believe, gus had the money to lose, and lose he did.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:35 AM   #441
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Posemuckel View Post
Quite surprising that Gus Hansen is not on the list. He lost 11 million $$ between March 09 and September 2010. It's very likely that he got a loan. Maybe he paid it back?
+ gus also said, he had the 2nd biggest (after jungleman) role on FTP on its shutdown... i think, he is fine
+ he had a 6M upswing on FTP before shutdown
+ he won alot in mixed and omaha hi/lo, before it was tracked (according to his own words a few years ago)
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:38 AM   #442
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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While I agree some of the people listed may actually have no intention to pay these debts unless forced, this post is ridiculous.

So anyone who doesn't pre-emptively announce their private debts to the world is a welcher?

Are you suggesting that because Barry hasn't posted on 2+2 about any other debts that he may or may not have that he has no intention of paying those back either.
I think he's suggesting what is probably fact. That alot of these guys were probably hoping this would never come out because they had little intentions of ever repaying the money. Doesn't it strike you as odd that he borrowed the money to play on full tilt then suddenly played on (big games) at stars? Now we both know that stars NEVER had anywhere close to the size games that full tilt had....

And giving layne flack money is just LOL..... that moneys gone for good, you cant bleed turnips. I wonder if he ever cashed it out to supply his meth habit
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:49 AM   #443
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

BalugaWhale gave the best summary of the situation.
I just hope the whole noise about the pros debt right now is a try to make them pay back by putting the pressure of the poker community. I doubt this will succeed since they never planned to do so, and they pretty much don’t give a damn about “poker community”. Less they have to pay back and longer it takes = better for them. How simple is that?
I want to think barryg1 is doing this announcement in a good faith but I just don’t buy his logic at all. He is contradicting himself basically saying; yeah I want to pay back, but I am not going to pay back.
Also I really hope this is only a try made by GBT that will not stop the deal from happening.
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #444
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by barryg1 View Post
Answering as much as I can:

1. I owe the money to Full Tilt not GBT. If I had borrowed from GBT, I wouldn't have an argument about not paying them back. I believe most people would not like me to hand it to FTP at this time. If I owed Madoff or Enron money, I wouldn't pay them either, but I would wait for a better way to settle the debt.

2. I admit it's somewhat self-serving and buys me time not to pay now. It also gives me a chance at getting money transferred (in the event that accounts are not paid back in full) from other people.

3. In answer to why someone would owe money for so long and not pay: In addition to borrow money online, I have had lots of credit lines from casinos. At one point I owed over 3 million with no interest. I didn't lose most of it, but often used it to play and invest (and sometimes lose in that way.) I paid the casinos off, but Full Tilt was last because I had no pressure to pay.

4. I agree that the entire player base deserves to get paid. As people have mentioned, it looks to me like the ROW will be taken care of if the deal goes through, so the US players need some source of funds. If the deal doesn't go through, my money should go into a fund for all the players worldwide.

5. I wasn't forthright about my debt until I had no choice because it would be embarrassing since I'm sponsored by PokerStars. I knew it would eventually come out and I could have done things to prevent it after Black Friday, but I thought it would be worse if I settled the debt in a way that resulted in the money being flushed down the drain just to avoid embarrassment.

6. Regarding US players not being paid in full: I assume that the US players will be paid out of money the DOJ gets from the sale, from seizures, and from debt repayment, minus what they keep. I have no real knowledge other than that, but if I plug in my best guesses I come up with less than is owed to the players, unless we get a surprisingly benevolent DOJ decision.

7. Even though I have many detractors in this thread, can you at least cut me some slack that I am doing the minimum of what is expected from people who owe money in the gambling world: I am admitting exactly what I owe (it's actually 382k) and I am stating my intention to pay it back. I think it will be beneficial if this trend continues.

and if you and the other pro's that owe money cause this sale to NOT go through due to not paying your debts, then everyone gets screwed.

doesnt make sense
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:55 AM   #445
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

You owe me money!
Even trying this that makes you a thief.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:03 AM   #446
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

the fact remains barry borrowed 400k "a few years ago" and just never paid it back, thats a disappointment I always thought more of barry
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:03 AM   #447
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Guys, back the ef off barryg. He's a class act unlike the people hating on him.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:06 AM   #448
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Wow. Just Wow.

Reality check, guys. Whatever happened to never gambling with borrowed money? Doesn't someone who's been around the block a few times know this is how people **** each other? If FTP was STAKING him as a celebrity player on their site, that's one thing, but he took a LOAN? WTF? Over. Or do pros never lose?

And someone is buying Full Tilt? What kind of moron would buy a business that owes vast sums of money to people it cheated? That's like someone buying a bar that is owed millions of dollars in bar tabs run up by homeless alcoholics based on them being paid back.

Seriously, people? Seriously? I thought poker players were supposed to be a lot smarter than this.

Sounds like everything about this site was a con job from start to finish. I feel so vindicated for quitting online poker after Zeejustin cheated the Stars Sunday tournaments.

And one more thing... You guys who are owed money by FTP.... YOU TOOK A RISK.... YOU GOT BURNED.... MAN THE **** UP... accept that you will likely never see any of the $ that you risked, you risked, not anyone else, you, again.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:11 AM   #449
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I don't understand at all the people who are negative on Barry about this. It's exactly what I think is best for players. Escrow perhaps better to set an example for other players,

but that's about it. wp.

Last edited by SGT RJ; 02-03-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:14 AM   #450
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

from cardplayer article:

"The money lent to players was in the form of tournament buy-ins, and most likely direct transfers to their Full Tilt accounts for cash game play, according to the source."

isn't the assumption that FTP typically paid for buy-ins to tournaments? maybe the issue is that the pros never considered the buy-ins a loan?
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