Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2012, 06:44 AM   #401
BeenAWhile
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 993
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by The STUD View Post
99% of you in the thread are a bunch of hypocrites-PERIOD!! Barry took a loan from a few of his FRIENDS. He didn't walk into BOA for a credit check. If you guys were in the same situation you wouldn't have done a thing differently. If you took a loan from friends and they said yeah pay us back whenever (which in the high stakes world players owe and swap debts) it wouldn't be any different than what Barry did. With everything up in the air who exactly would Barry pay? Write a check to Howard? Pay GBT who does not own FTP? Do you guys think the 18 million is really going to be fully recovered?

I know many people are angry and looking for someone to blame. Giving Barry all this heat over 400K when others owe MILLIONS is ludicrous. As for PR move: gee have not heard from any of the FTP owners and others mentioned taking loans.
What a load of BS that is.

If I took a loan from a friend I would pay it back as fast as possible, especially if it's interest-free. These are basic foundations of both morale and friendship. If you beg to differ I hope you are not involded in any staking. From past staking deals I know it's very uncomfortable to loan money and having to wait for it because of whatever reason

However using your comparison: What I certainly wouldn't do after borrowing money from a friend:
a) not paying back for ages when my friend is dead or seriously ill
b) stating that I won't transfer the money because my friend is not able to receive it due to illness etc and I don't trust his relatives
c) using the word 'morale' or 'obligation' anymore after a) or b) happened

Plus 400k is a significant part of a million, especially considering the other players at least had some connection to FTP.

Last edited by BeenAWhile; 02-03-2012 at 06:51 AM.
BeenAWhile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 06:52 AM   #402
The STUD
grinder
 
The STUD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: US
Posts: 561
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeenAWhile View Post
What a load of BS that is.

If I took a loan from a friend I would pay it back as fast as possible, especially if it's interest-free. From past staking deals I know it's very uncomfortable to loan money and having to wait for it because of whatever reason
What I certainly don't do is:
a) not paying back for ages when my friend is dead or seriously ill
b) stating that I won't transfer the money because my friend is not able to receive it due to illness etc and I don't trust his relatives
c) using the word 'morale' or 'obligation' in my lifetime once more after a) or b) happened

Plus 400k is a significant part of a million, especially considering the other players at least had some connection to FTP.
Twist things the way you like. You obviously are not seeing things the way they went down. Your analogy to a sick or dead friend was a nice touch. What a bunch of BS your a) b) c) list was. 382K is a small slice to the enormous problem FTP has created. You guys are making Barry the fall guy for everything....
The STUD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 06:53 AM   #403
TGSM89
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TGSM89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 8,488
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by BalugaWhale View Post
It's really simple guys:

GBT: "We don't really want to buy FTP without making sure we'll get the $20M the pros owe"

Barry Greenstein and other pros: "We don't really want to promise our money to GBT before they own FTP"

I get it, its fair.

But go one step further, and only a few outcomes are possible:
1) Pro's refuse to sign pre-agreements. GBT walks away from the deal. Barry et al keep their money. This is a very good result for Barry et al, and a very bad result for everyone else.

2) Pro's sign pre-agreements to hand over their money once GBT completes the sale. GBT moves ahead with confidence and completes the deal. The pro's pay back their debts, we all get paid. hooray.

3) Pro's refuse to sign pre-agreements. GBT buys the company anyway, then sues the hell out of Barry/Ivey/Lindgren, etc.

For GBT it very likely goes, from best to worst:
1) Pro's agree to pay
2) Walk away
3) Buy FTP and sue Pros

For Pro's, it very likely goes:
1) Don't pay, hope the deal fails.
2) Don't pay, fight any lawsuits and/or settle for a lesser amount.
3) Pay back their debts.

Simply put, the only party with a real interest in repaying US customers at this stage is the DOJ, and they're not really involved in this stuff. So, it really wouldn't surprise me if the pro's tank the deal by refusing their pre-agreements. In that light, I really hope GBT buys FTP and sues them all, but that could be wishful thinking.

I just want my money back. Sigh.

Andrew
!


People that owe FTP money need to pay, not doing so is hurting every player on FTP that has a balance there

Unfortunately the pros are only looking out for themselves and don't care about the 10,000s people of lives they hurt/ruin

TGSM89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 06:54 AM   #404
Flip-Flop
veteran
 
Flip-Flop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,168
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry I love you but your OP sounds more like a lame excuse in order to save some money.
Just pay your debts, FTP issue is very sensitive and can hurt your great reputation that you've been buidling for decades.
Not worth 400k imo, pay up and be done with it.
Flip-Flop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 06:56 AM   #405
SamuraiJon
Pooh-Bah
 
SamuraiJon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: wooz on snooze
Posts: 5,178
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry, with all due respect there is fluff in your defensive argument that doesn't hold weight. The moral obligation crap would never hold up in court.

It's plain and simple. You owe money in the amount of 400k. It needs to be paid. Pay it.

I applaud you for being on the side the US players but this is not the way to do it.
SamuraiJon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:00 AM   #406
CheckRaise_
veteran
 
CheckRaise_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: too late axe in the car
Posts: 2,746
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

always respect for barry
CheckRaise_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:01 AM   #407
Andrew Boccia
old hand
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Real Estate Investing in Florida
Posts: 1,533
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip-Flop View Post
Barry I love you but your OP sounds more like a lame excuse in order to save some money.
no it doesn't, reading is hard
Andrew Boccia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:02 AM   #408
FTPlayerNHell
centurion
 
FTPlayerNHell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 173
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

BARRY,

Please understand that there are many ways for you to make a public display of your effort to make good on this debt and a lot of time has gone by.

Instead, the poker community has seen nothing but avoidance from you and your friends. We are the people who made you guys legends and this is how we are treated. I've come to the conclusion that you guys either really don't give **** or you're broke.

Obviously you're role is not as bad as others, but there is no way for us to separate you from Phil Ivey or Chris Ferguson when we have seen you sit on the same tables. For that matter, you're now in the same group with the scammers that took advantage of phantom deposits.

This group that your involved with needs to do something now. Your accomplishments got you to the top, but the community made you legends. I know that is probably more significant than any of your many business feats. Las Vegas didn't kiss your ass when you were a computer geek. I know which I'd rather have.

Anyway, to summarize: If you or your friends ever want to come close to the status you guys achieved for so many years, than you need to do something to remedy your public opinion NOW. If you guys ever want to be able to play poker in this country in public, than you need to do something NOW.

I know that seeing an escrow fund established next week to pay US players back would make me feel all warm and tingly inside.
FTPlayerNHell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:03 AM   #409
tuccotrading
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,141
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruthSpeaks View Post
Oh they ole "I'm going to pay you back when this other person pays me back" routine.

Sidenote- LOL@ loaning Layne Flack 2 mill

IS THIS A SICK JOKE, PERHAPS?

Seriously.. who would authorize large loans to Layne (let alone 2 million), and what would their motive be?

If the site was short players money when they did any of these loans...

Who at FTP would loan out money in this manner, and why?
tuccotrading is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:05 AM   #410
Alrighty Roo
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Alrighty Roo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NONSTOPNIGHTCORE
Posts: 16,268
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Why has this thread got 400+ posts? I doubt anyone would ever think that Barry would ever be less than 100% trustworthy. Chillax people, he's a good guy...
Alrighty Roo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:05 AM   #411
BeenAWhile
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 993
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by The STUD View Post
Twist things the way you like. You obviously are not seeing things the way they went down. Your analogy to a sick or dead friend was a nice touch. What a bunch of BS your a) b) c) list was. 382K is a small slice to the enormous problem FTP has created. You guys are making Barry the fall guy for everything....
You started the analogy. Nobody knows the exact details of the deal between greenstein and ftp. All we know is that Greenstein received a significant sum and (even according to himself) can't be bothered to pay it back, offering some lame-ass excuses. You said everybody would act the same which I find to be quite insulting.

Nobody blames Barry for everything. We blame him partly because we thought he would be somewhat different from the main villains. Yet in this thread he offers nothing but excuses and only offers information which already went public. The other reason people criticize him for is the fact that he talks about 'morale' and 'obligation' when in his position he probably shouldn't.
BeenAWhile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:11 AM   #412
alexuuus
veteran
 
alexuuus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,316
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alrighty Roo View Post
Why has this thread got 400+ posts? I doubt anyone would ever think that Barry would ever be less than 100% trustworthy. Chillax people, he's a good guy...
well, although i agree with you, a year ago i thought this about some other players too
alexuuus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:14 AM   #413
Crockett616
Snoopy of MTTs
 
Crockett616's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 731
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Yeah, good luck collecting from layne and matusow, hahaha. Makes u wonder what life at fulltilt must have been like when the gravy train was still rollin. As for those who say they all need to pay up bc its hurting poker 'community', lol, they owe big sums of money, im sure they go 'mmm.... yeah, might not pay cause this is a ****load of dough but yeah, dont want all the nice grinders to get hurt so yeah ok, heres my 500k or what ever...'
Crockett616 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:17 AM   #414
TGSM89
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TGSM89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 8,488
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crockett616 View Post
Yeah, good luck collecting from layne and matusow, hahaha. Makes u wonder what life at fulltilt must have been like when the gravy train was still rollin. As for those who say they all need to pay up bc its hurting poker 'community', lol, they owe big sums of money, im sure they go 'mmm.... yeah, might not pay cause this is a ****load of dough but yeah, dont want all the nice grinders to get hurt so yeah ok, heres my 500k or what ever...'
Some people have morals though
TGSM89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:18 AM   #415
alexuuus
veteran
 
alexuuus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,316
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

is there a list somehwere what players owes what kind of money?
alexuuus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:19 AM   #416
tuccotrading
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,141
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

I have questions about those at FTP who authorized large player loans.

Was FTP in the red at anytime in the "Player Balance" when they paid dividends to owners or made these "player loans?"
tuccotrading is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:21 AM   #417
Regret$
burnt out
 
Regret$'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11,527
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

OP, if you want to clear up $1.3k of this debt, pm your preference stars, cake or merge and I will send you my SN to ship to.

On a more serious note, I don't think anyone should care about how much Tapie gets if they aren't going to pay out to the player's money they owe.
Regret$ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:23 AM   #418
FocusIT
grinder
 
FocusIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 546
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

What a mess
FocusIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:24 AM   #419
epix-
adept
 
epix-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,066
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

you borrow money from the company of fulltilt so you have to pay back the company of fulltilt. if the owner of the company switches, you owe money to the new owner. the new owner of fulltilt will not be us american players. i think your patriotism does not connect with logical thinking.

i dont see a reason why you can switch freely who to pay.
also i dont see a reason why you prefer players with the nationality USA.
have to say it, it feels kind of racist vs everything else then USA.
epix- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:36 AM   #420
Roflpain
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 25
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry you lost me man. Selfish old sad man.
Roflpain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:37 AM   #421
INSART
journeyman
 
INSART's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Berlin
Posts: 226
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by epix- View Post
you borrow money from the company of fulltilt so you have to pay back the company of fulltilt. if the owner of the company switches, you owe money to the new owner. the new owner of fulltilt will not be us american players. i think your patriotism does not connect with logical thinking.

i dont see a reason why you can switch freely who to pay.
also i dont see a reason why you prefer players with the nationality USA.
have to say it, it feels kind of racist vs everything else then USA.
#

sounds like a fckn joke, lame excuse, whatever. I already lost all my respect for the whole FTP "pros" and now for you too Mr Greenstein. Doesn't seem like you are really trying to get players reimbursed. Surely there has to be some way for you and your dear friends to work out a solution w/ GBT that satisfies both US/non US players. You keep talking about morale and the right thing to do while some of us are sitting at home waiting for our money for 6 months now and have a hard time paying bills while you make 400k out of nothing. The way i see it: you partly owe ME money and the best way for ME (and i think im speaking for most ppl here) getting my money back is by FTP coming back. If you decide to stand in the way of a potential comeback you are partly responsible for us getting scammed.

also, how do you think you are going to pay back players directly? how are you supposed to know how much each individual had on their accounts etc.? you think every1 will say the truth about their balances and get reimbursed accordingly? what about ppl who dont post and read on 2+2 and dont have sources to contact you? even if you were to make a pool for former ftp players there would be no way to gaurantee fairness. the only right thing to do for you is pay back what you owe. same goes for anyone other involved in this mess, our former 'idols' who are practically stealing from us. you got some nerves talking about morale here. seriously.
INSART is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:43 AM   #422
pokrat
newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 48
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Mr Greenstein

you are a serious threat to a society....

Regards
pokrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:51 AM   #423
tuccotrading
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,141
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Please don't tell me FTP made loans to their buddies and allies when they did not have ALL of the player money on hand.

What a scummy betrayal this would be by FTP (whoever that was). What Ponzi-work this stealing would be- if true.

Tell me FTP did not pay ANY dividends to the owners, or make ANY loans to anyone, when they were short player money.


I am open to evidence that FTP had ALL the players money on hand every time they cut the owners a dividend check, or made an interest free personal loan.
tuccotrading is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 08:06 AM   #424
shortbusbully
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 82
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

I'm just curious what was going through peoples minds when they decided it was ok to loan true loser degens like layne flack and mike mattusow huge sums of money??

Ivey i get, but he turned out to be just as much of a scumbag if not bigger than those 2.
shortbusbully is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 08:07 AM   #425
Klakteuh
banned
 
Klakteuh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,977
Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

I don't have money stuck on FTP but I think it's very good of you to come out and explain your situation, thanks
Klakteuh is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online