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Old 02-02-2012, 10:57 PM   #226
Shamrock O'Donk
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Zaarg View Post
why do they all need to borrow money?
you ever tried transferring 400k to an overseas account? (rhetorical) i'd imagine it's pretty difficult and would raise some flags along the way.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:00 PM   #227
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

He doesn't pay his debt because other players on FTP owe him money? The two aren't related, just a tired excuse.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:01 PM   #228
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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So. What was Greensteins FTP name?
barrg1, he played the high stakes mixed games briefly, lost his ass, then quit on line until Pokerstars made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:06 PM   #229
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by jad14 View Post
He doesn't pay his debt because other players on FTP owe him money? The two aren't related, just a tired excuse.
this

, good a he came out and talked about it but has owed this for what? Years now?

Should have been paid off by now
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:07 PM   #230
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

I have one huge criticism for Barry

Spoiler:
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:09 PM   #231
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Barry gets a lot of love in these forums, largely I imagine because he bothers to post in them and because of his Robin Hood reputation.

I have no problem with Barry, I probably like him for the same reasons but I can't imagine he was ever planning to (or was ever expected to) pay FTP back the $400k he talks of. If he had I'm sure he would have by now. I'm sure FTP never pursued him for it and never had any intention of doing so.

Likewise, I'm sure he would never have come out and mentioned the $400k if this hadn't all become public as it just has.

What this means I don't really know but I think if Barry is keeping secrets like this and only revealing them when he gets caught out god knows what the rest of them are hiding.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:11 PM   #232
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Let's get something really clear hear. Barry G is no saint. He is someone who has played high stakes poker in Las Vegas for many years and who has mixed with all the other saints there like Doyle and Russ Hamilton etc. of course he's going to respond, he's not stupid. He's just protecting his future assets ie his PokerStars contract.

Some people are so gullible when it comes to players advertising that they give to charity. So what.Do it quietly .... I have always hated his Robin Hood of poker mantle. He is pond slime of the highest order believe me.

He should pay the money back and let the DOJ decide what to do with it. All of them should Hansen, Benyamine, Ivey, Lindgren and anyone else who borrowed money so that FTP could give the pretence of being the 'HOME OF HIGH STAKES' which was their one unique selling point.

This company was destroyed by players like Barry G borrowing and never paying back!!! That's where they ****ed up.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:13 PM   #233
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Hmmm... Not sure what to think; If Tapie is buying FTP it stands to reason that they want to make sure they're payed back any outstanding debt. Besides, if the deal falls through due to this whole debt mess, then the chance of us getting paid back our OWN MONEY is zilch anyhow.

But at least BIG KUDOS to Barry for having the decency and balls to speak up! I just wish the rest of the FTP mafia would do the same. They're all just a bunch of douches if they don't.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:13 PM   #234
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

The reality is that it is almost certainly no formal agreement about the debt between barryg1 and FTP. We have no idea what was verbally said. At this point, it is unlikely anyone else has a clear recollection either. As such, he isn't under any obligation to pay back any money under any schedule.

That said, barryg1 should be well aware that money is fungible. His desire to have his money go to US players is as ridiculous as people writing the US government protesting that they only want their money to go to helping the poor, not defense spending. It would be worrying if I had money on FTP that GBT's lawyer didn't instantly agree to his request. It suggests they aren't particularly savvy. In the end, all that is going on is that some electrons are moving in one location, causing others to move in another location. Unless barryg1 can trace the elections, he has no clue as to whether his electrons are being used to move other electrons in US players' accounts or not.

As others have mentioned, not paying his debt merely makes it less likely that the deal will go through. As a respected member of the poker community, his refusal simply encourages others to take the same position, reducing the chance that the deal goes through further. I'd rather him say, "**** paying you guys now, I'll pay you when I have to" than to come up with some lame excuse as to why he won't clear his debt. The fact that someone owes him money is immaterial. His loan to someone else has nothing to do with what he owes.

It saddens me that Barry is falling in the same trap that Joe did.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:15 PM   #235
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by kevinb1983 View Post
That's not entirely accurate though.

Hes saying I borrowed money from X. Now Y wants to collect on X's debt because Y is in the process of purchasing X. I'm not entirely sure of Y's motives for trying to collect at this particular time but I am sure of Z's motives (the DOJ) so until I am legally obligated to pay Y I feel it's in the best interest of several entities to hold off or possibly settle up with Z.
Despite how the original post may read I donít think GPT is saying anything other than pay FT. Itís not like he gives the money to GBT, then GPT can walk away from the deal and keep the money.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:17 PM   #236
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

actually I read this wrong. I thought he said he owes only 150k but he indeed is only owed 150k from other players AND HASNT PAYED A DIME BACK OF A 400k loan?

Barry, any particular reason you never decided to pay back besides your excuse that others owed u money?

Too many craps sessions with Ivey?

Dunno if Barry plays the EPL but if he does would this not be grounds to get him suspended from the league?
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:19 PM   #237
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

thanks to Barry for coming in here and making it clear, and quickly.

Barry G's $400k is an asset held by Full Tilt. Full Tilt is forfeiting all assets to the DOJ, then, the Groupe is buying these assets from the DOJ. GBT should try to value the assets its going to buy, and paying them directly certainly makes that easier. However, I think it would violate the spirit of the agreement and so perhaps what Barry, etc. should do is formally agree to escrow the money or something like that.

AFAIK, should the players hold out and not pay, and the deal fell through, then the DOJ will be collecting the assets directly as part of the forfeiture of FTP's assets. I assume the players would rather deal w/ paying GBT back than the DOJ.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:20 PM   #238
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Can I also add something about the BTG supposed deal. In the unlikely event that it happens no player will receive any cash, they. A if they're lucky receive shares in the new company which will get diluted in years to come.

This Tapie guy is not right in the head and his association with this guy from Partouche should really worry all French players. Stadium poker tour et al is just a silly French dream.

Kiss goodbye to your FTP $$$$$$ , move on and get a life ... You were mugged by Ivey/Greenstein/Benyamine and their merry band of men
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:20 PM   #239
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

The DOJ could requests all the pros to pay their debts to them directly, held in escrow.

Problems solved?

Timing of this seems odd, this was reported months ago.

If the deal falls through, expect the DOJ to drive every player through bankruptcy in legal fees to recoup loans or prevent them from playing, visiting, living in the states if they have any assets overseas.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:21 PM   #240
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

"It saddens me that Barry is falling in the same trap that Joe did."

It should be expected. Joe's whole career was influenced heavily by Barry's marketing savvy and guidance. Not only did Barry coach him about the game, but he also advised him about marketing his image and reputation to maximize profit, something Barry did very well for himself as well.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:24 PM   #241
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Did Robin Hood borrow from the rich and give to....himself?
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:24 PM   #242
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by troyk710 View Post
My two cents:

GBT contacted BG for money
BG does NOT owe GBT anything
FTP 'lent' BG money ($400K)
FTP stole/defrauded this money from players around the world (US/ROW) per the DOJ
BG effectively owes the money to the players directly - not through a questionable (at best) conduit (FTP) and not to GBT.

BG confirmed the debt, confirmed he will pay 100 cents on the dollar - and is willing to work through the DOJ to complete the repayment process.

Per reports - GBT has known about these debts for 3 months.
Their opinion on the value of these debts may have changed - but the existence of the debts has not. GBT's PR is thus misleading if these reports are correct.

For many reasons - GBT may wish to re-negotiate the terms of their deal.

For many reasons - the DOJ would like to maximize the purchase price they receive for the forfeited assets of FTP.

If each side wants they can offset the 'uncollectable' loans against the purchase price - asset (re)valuation is a common part of the due diligence done between term sheet (offer) and deal consummation.

In summary - BG's position should not affect the deal in any way; if each side wants to complete the deal they can; AND it is incorrect that BG owes any funds to GBT and arguable that he owes money to the BOD of FTP - since they (allegedly) stole everything from the players.
+

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsAhoya View Post
thanks to Barry for coming in here and making it clear, and quickly.

Barry G's $400k is an asset held by Full Tilt. Full Tilt is forfeiting all assets to the DOJ, then, the Groupe is buying these assets from the DOJ. GBT should try to value the assets its going to buy, and paying them directly certainly makes that easier. However, I think it would violate the spirit of the agreement and so perhaps what Barry, etc. should do is formally agree to escrow the money or something like that.

AFAIK, should the players hold out and not pay, and the deal fell through, then the DOJ will be collecting the assets directly as part of the forfeiture of FTP's assets. I assume the players would rather deal w/ paying GBT back than the DOJ.
and were done..
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:24 PM   #243
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Answering as much as I can:

1. I owe the money to Full Tilt not GBT. If I had borrowed from GBT, I wouldn't have an argument about not paying them back. I believe most people would not like me to hand it to FTP at this time. If I owed Madoff or Enron money, I wouldn't pay them either, but I would wait for a better way to settle the debt.

2. I admit it's somewhat self-serving and buys me time not to pay now. It also gives me a chance at getting money transferred (in the event that accounts are not paid back in full) from other people.

3. In answer to why someone would owe money for so long and not pay: In addition to borrow money online, I have had lots of credit lines from casinos. At one point I owed over 3 million with no interest. I didn't lose most of it, but often used it to play and invest (and sometimes lose in that way.) I paid the casinos off, but Full Tilt was last because I had no pressure to pay.

4. I agree that the entire player base deserves to get paid. As people have mentioned, it looks to me like the ROW will be taken care of if the deal goes through, so the US players need some source of funds. If the deal doesn't go through, my money should go into a fund for all the players worldwide.

5. I wasn't forthright about my debt until I had no choice because it would be embarrassing since I'm sponsored by PokerStars. I knew it would eventually come out and I could have done things to prevent it after Black Friday, but I thought it would be worse if I settled the debt in a way that resulted in the money being flushed down the drain just to avoid embarrassment.

6. Regarding US players not being paid in full: I assume that the US players will be paid out of money the DOJ gets from the sale, from seizures, and from debt repayment, minus what they keep. I have no real knowledge other than that, but if I plug in my best guesses I come up with less than is owed to the players, unless we get a surprisingly benevolent DOJ decision.

7. Even though I have many detractors in this thread, can you at least cut me some slack that I am doing the minimum of what is expected from people who owe money in the gambling world: I am admitting exactly what I owe (it's actually 382k) and I am stating my intention to pay it back. I think it will be beneficial if this trend continues.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:27 PM   #244
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryg1 View Post
Answering as much as I can:

1. I owe the money to Full Tilt not GBT. If I had borrowed from GBT, I wouldn't have an argument about not paying them back. I believe most people would not like me to hand it to FTP at this time.
If you read the posts in this thread it looks like most people would like you to pay FT NOW.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:30 PM   #245
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by barryg1 View Post
Answering as much as I can:


7. Even though I have many detractors in this thread, can you at least cut me some slack that I am doing the minimum of what is expected from people who owe money in the gambling world: I am admitting exactly what I owe (it's actually 382k) and I am stating my intention to pay it back. I think it will be beneficial if this trend continues.
That is indeed the "minimum of what is expected" in the gambling world. That's the problem. The "minimum of what is expected" should be that you actually pay it back! As one of the "good guys" of that world, I guess many of us were hoping you held yourself up to a standard higher than the minimum. But your candor is appreciated, and should be emulated (and hopefully re-created).
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:30 PM   #246
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Solid points Barry , and I'm not a fan of yours
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:31 PM   #247
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by andyg2001 View Post
If you read the posts in this thread it looks like most people would like you to pay FT NOW.
All else aside, the majority of this thread, or even the majority of 2p2, doesn't come close to representing the majority of poker players owed by FTP.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:32 PM   #248
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

props for barry at least coming out and willing to discuss this situation, that is 1000x more than most of the others involved
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:32 PM   #249
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow escrow!

Call up your boy Ivey, reach out the rest of the clan and get something organized.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:32 PM   #250
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Re: Response regarding money I owe to Full Tilt

I think Barry deserves credit for being the first pro to come foward and talk about this and more credit for answering followups. It would prob be best and for the most part safe if he just payed what he owed now, but i think he has at least semivalid reasons for not doing so.
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