Ok so this just has to be said guys. Blockers don't need to be considered for every single freaking hand! I see this ALL the time now and I'm going to blame Doug Polk for getting everybody talking about it incessantly. But blockers should only be a consideration in a close decision. Like you are having a hard time deciding what to do one way or the other so you might consider blockers. Not every hand is close in fact very few hands are close decisions. It's honestly not an important factor in making a decision one way or the other(or the least important factor).

Also I don't like people saying that they wouldn't want to have the Ac on a two club board because then they block the nut flush draw. Well I'd rather have the 4% raw equity in my hand. Thanks.

The "content" of this thread is not a blocker to actual news.

All the best.

I made a similar point a while back that Doug Polk was talking about blockers as if he was holding 3 of a card rank or 4 of a suit when it is only one blocker card so should be more accurately described as "we *partially* block".

He did respond to me (on Twitter I think) that a blocker makes a ~3% to 5% difference in equity decisions, but like you said can be an influencer in tight spots.

He has definitely toned down the importance of blockers in his hand analysis videos. About a year ago he did some hand analyses where every street he played he mentioned blockers as if they were 50% of his decision making process, and there was one hand that he played terribly where every bad decision he made was justified with blockers theory.

Having said all of the above, aggression and fearlessness definitely plays a big role in successful NLHE cash so using blocker(s) to justify pulling the trigger more often is a good thing. (even if mathematically over valuing them)

You don't make much money by folding too often in poker either, so they are also useful in very close spots on the river to determine which hands we can call with according to GTO strategy.

2 types of poker players, those who care and those who dont.

You should be happy that so many people are exaggerating the value of blockers, not ranting about it.

You should actually consider blockers every hand.

That doesn't mean it will turn a bad play into a good play, but correct use will make your strategy stronger. You only get to use so many hands for different plays. Thinking about what hands have the best removal to make those plays will make them more effective.

Also I hope you aren't in the Upswing Lab because the next module being released is an in depth look at blockers lol

New T-Shirt logo ideas:

# We Block Everything

# Card Removal

Think how many times you and your opponent have the same hand. Exactly!

Your argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense, as blockers are an extra layer of information. The more layers of information you can utilize correctly when making a decision, the better. decision you can make when you make it correctly.

Maybe, what you're getting at more is how these things catch on as buzz words, and that I do understand. First it was +EV. Everybody talked about everything in +EV terms, then it became range, everything came down to range - usually utilized by people who were just throwing the word in without much weight behind it.

I don't know if the same thing will happen with blockers. Maybe there will be lots of posts from small stakes players really worried about blockers in simple spots, that could well happen. But that's just the natural progression of these things.

Also, I play PLO so potential blocker bias :P

+100000 on all the blocker madness.

I can see with nut flushes and stuff , and a few other obvious spots


but... cmon.. arent we really talking about low single digit percent impact on most situations.

for online play ... with lots and lots of hands blockers pretty important . I get it.

for live play. live reads >>>>>>>>> blockers

thus, stop talking about blockers for live (except nut flushes and few other spots) and talk more about live reads and white magic.

thats one reason why Phil spanked you and jungle, Doug. think about it.

Blockers in PLO are way more interesting and a lot more dangerous if incorrectly building them into decision making. E.g. calling down 2 or 3 streets of value with 2 pair on a straight making board just because we have one or two blockers to the straight. The villain basically nearly always has it if they are showing out and out aggression throughout the hand.

I've also played against a couple of players who habitually bet their blockers way too much in PLO so are easy to bluff catch against.

So in PLO, how to use blockers to bet with and how to react to opponents using their blockers against us is extremely opponent dependent and betting pattern dependent, not just board dependent, which is why I believe blockers are far from a GTO solved aspect of PLO.

Yeah blockers are garbage guys, don't use it, GTO my balls

wait, before this thread goes haywire

are we talking about NLH or PLO ?

i was assuming NLH

those are totally diff threads.

also are we talking live or online?

also different threads.


well done

Haha this thread is great.

blockers are BS at least 80 percent of the time, imo.

Lol!!!

Hmmm maybe I'm just a simpleton but it seems like too much to think about to consider blockers every hand. Not so much that I can't but that I think it's a waste of mental effort. I dunno. Again I think it's something to think about in close spots, but most times I just have a hand that I know what to do with. It doesn't matter if I have the Ten of binks feet or not.

Havent bought into the lab just yet. Probably will soon .

No I'm saying it's a mostly unnecessary and irrelevant layer of information. I'm saying having a blocker or not should not change the decision you were going to make 99% of the time.

I don't play much PLO but having 4 cards as blockers makes blockers exponentially more valuable in PLO. Probably still overused by anyone understanding the concept.

Pretty much only I'm not being facetious.


Also blockers are more important when you have a pair. Like if you have 55 and you block 65 for the nuts or something. The value of having paired blockers is significantly greater than just having one blocker.

yeah i meant NLHE not PLO. and im also mostly talking about live although honestly i dont think blockers play a significant factor online either. at least not at full ring games.

The "problem" with blockers is that people often don't realize that having a certain card blocks both the value and the bluffing range of our opponent. So the blocker gets used as an excuse to justify a call or a fold even when it's indifferent having it or not.

In 5 card Plo blockers are more important that the 2 cards you use

But what happened to running straights and flushes they were big talk before blockers?!?
For blockers there are some things called pot odds which everybody should count on eyesight for yourself and for villain.

lol game theory. When's the last time you saw a 20-something nerd playing high stakes no limit?

haters gonna hate

blockers gonna block

[x] came into the thread thinking it was about beta blockers

Whats the deal with people that use blockers every hand? I mean every single hand - bet bet bet - all because of these blockers! They don't even know their blockers!

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?!

What's brilliant about introducing the concept of blockers to the poker world is that it gives crap players a new way to rationalize doing really really dumb **** while at best marginally improving the decisions of good players.

Kudos to doug for finding a way to make money by providing information that actually makes people worse at poker.