i hate this "theres way more to the story" ****. everyone in her life obv hates her, she hates herself...nobody is going to be harmed. spill it wtf

I think Jenn's point is that this was a defining moment to which there could be no defense.

Every other Brandi story thus far LOOKED bad for her, but every time there was a small element of doubt -- something that she could use to explain her actions and not look all that bad in the eyes of those who trusted her.

With this situation, there is no possible defense.

Nothing Brandi could say could even come close to justifying stealing all of her ex-boyfriend's possessions and selling them off for poker money. The only minor element of doubt here was whether or not the story was true. Jenn apparently got verification that this did indeed occur, and that became the smoking-gun proof that Brandi's "innocent/confused victim" act was a complete farce all along.

Finally, Brandon did not deserve any of this. He might have INVITED it, but he didn't deserve it. Big difference there. From all of the reports I'm getting, he treated Brandi well -- too well, in fact -- and got the equivalent of a swift kick in the balls for it. I always felt that he was making a foolish decision trying to have a serious relationship with someone that damaged, but that doesn't mean he deserves anything bad to happen to him.

Much like his friend Micon after the Justin Smith scam, Brandon isn't making excuses. He isn't defending his decisions. He admits he was foolish and wrong to trust her for so long. He's simply coming forward and telling his story. I don't even think he's looking for sympathy. He just wants everyone to know what happened. What's wrong with that?

whatever happened with that? was micon paid back? smith get pwned or what?

Actually the reason a lot of twoplustwoers are being less sympathetic than what seems reasonable is yet another good lesson in human nature. An objective observer would still be very sympathetic to Brandon even though he perhaps should have been smart enough to heed the warnings given to him. But in this case, it was the twoplustwoers THEMSELVES who issued him those warnings (I was not one of them). When he didn't heed them I'm sure some posters here were sort of insulted and that's probably playing into their reactions.

Brandon certainly has to take blame for being gullible- and he does take responsibility for it.

But I don't put him in the true "idiot mark" category like those people who get scammed by Nigerian e-mailers simply because his story is as old as time itself. Brandi is a very hot girl (at least to my eyes) and when you're tapping a hot piece like that your objectivity can go out the window pretty quickly. And I really don't think there was any indication she would actually go the grand larceny route. Up until that point, it seems like she was just more or less your typical gold-digging slut. Vegas is filled with guys playing sugar-daddy to hot girls. If the sex is worth the amount they're paying, then hey- to each his own. I'll be honest and admit I threw a way a lot of cash on hot Vegas girlfriends back in my day. I knew they were using me, but I was using them too, and when the price got too expensive I could always cut them loose.

But now Brandi has crossed the line big-time and she needs to end up in jail. And she will end up there if Brandon keeps after the authorities to do so. This has gotten a fair amount of publicity, and I don't think the Vegas prosecutors will want to be known as a do-nothing group.

The most interesting part of this video for me was the revelation that Brandi couldn't have sex without being ****faced drunk first.

It inevitably raises the question of why? If this woman actually likes you, why can't she have sex with you when sober? In my experience, the only women I've known who do this are whores who drink in order to do something that is completely repellant to them -- ie, have sex for money.

Brandon might have more success with women in the future if he familiarizes himself with the ladder theory, http://www.laddertheory.com/

This same point casts some light on the whole issue of whether she had sex with newhizzle, or whether she simply gave him a grudging hand-job because she felt sorry for him. On the basis of Brandon's account, we have to award newhizzle the points for full sex, because if Brandi *had* done the nasty with him, she would have obviously have to have been so drunk that it's not surprising that she wouldn't remember the next day.

Finally, Brandon's looking pretty damn rough in this video. I hope he's taking care of himself. Obviously, this has been a painful emotional blow to the man, but remember, for you this will eventually pass, but Brandi will always be Brandi.

Well, until she becomes Naoomi Dungheap or whatever her new alias is.

WTF? She just screwed you over too, or you just found out about it/realized it now? Damn, I feel we're never gonna get all the juicy goss .

The fact that brandi had to be under the influence before she had sex could also be because of something that happened to her in the past. It wouldn't be suprising if Brandi has been sexually assaulted or raped. If she was working as a prostitute the risk is even greater. Often times a woman who has gone through something traumatic like a rape won't be able to engage in sexual activities without bringing back memories and feelings from the traumatic experience. It's really sad.

It ain't that she's too big to listen to the rumors, its just that she's too damn big to pay attention to them.

FYI, Brandi is talkin to JennFox in the other thread, she is BTOC.

Of course: and a very high proportion of the women who work as prostitutes tend to have had these experiences.

At some point, I believe Brandon posted a little about Brandi's background that included being abducted by a mother who was suffering from mental illness as a child. Children in this situation are extremely vulnerable to both sexual abuse, and physical and emotional abuse via neglect and the instability of the parent. This kind of unstable upbringing is pretty much the fertile ground in which future sex workers are cultivated.

This was why I said that I felt sorry for Brandi, but she is what she is: feeling sorry for her isn't going to change her. The only thing that will change her is when her current coping strategies stop working for her, and she doesn't have any choice but to devise a new set. I'm pretty certain that there was a large side of her that realized that she had found the best thing of her life in Brandon and that she really wanted to make it work. But women like that just don't seem able to stop sabotaging themselves, even when they desperately want to.

Given her looks and her quasi-celebrity, I don't see her changing any time soon.

That probably accurately sums it up in a way that I couldn't. I knew everything. I would assume more than anyone else. By her admitting certain things to me and her determination to change, it caaused me to believe in her. And I did.

I didnt want to post what I did about her. But after hearing that all of this was a game she was playing for a year with me, it caused me to act differently.

Yeah, sometimes it's hard for me not to tease you about it because the situation kind of encourages that, but I'm not unsympathetic. If you've never come across women like Brandi before, they're experts at convincing you that they really do want to change because they believe it themselves. There's a side of them that really *does* want to change. They know that what they do isn't in their best interests, and hurts them more than anyone else over the long term.

But they also have terrible impulse control and no ability to take responsibility for their own actions. They see themselves as victims, because they have no belief in their own self-efficacy -- their own ability to create their own situation -- because they've never been taught how to survive the way the rest of us have. Because they know they can turn a quick buck whenever they need to, they see real work as being beneath them. This produces a sense of entitlement that's ultimately destructive because they'll always be the unequal partner in a relationship as they can never earn their own living. They're always financially dependent on men.

And they quickly resent that. So when the relationship ends, they believe they are 'owed' money simply as payment for the pleasure of their company. But that's also a rationalization for the fact that they're terrified because they're being thrown onto their own resources again, and that means the void. It's either find another man fast (and lots of the men they meet will be as exploitative as they are), or it's back to hard hustling and selling the poon for what the hourly market will bear.

Eventually, you'll learn from this and move on. I hope that you don't let it make you cynical and ungenerous, because if that happens, you'll be the loser as well, but I'm sure that you'll be a little more realistic in the future.

Good luck with that.

Who are you? You are hitting bullseye after bullseye.

Ah, I'm just someone who knows more about whores than I do about poker.

Actually, I'm being facetious. My background is in criminology/sociology. I've worked on research programmes with sex workers on and off for over twenty years. I've known lots of Brandi's -- albeit none that were quite so high profile -- and I've actually known some of them turn their lives around.

i know i'm late to the game here,but this is a fantastic post which didn't get nearly enough love

How did they turn their lives around? Is there a common pattern for this? I once dated a pycho bitch, so i'm curious.

Mostly through intensive therapy and long-term residential rehab.

These behaviour patterns tend to be accompanied by other forms of social or psychological disorder, eg substance misuse problems, eating disorders, engagement in criminal activities, etc. As time goes on, they lurch from crisis to crisis, struggling to keep all of the various balls in the air (men, lies, money issues, etc.) Eventually, the situation becomes intolerable and results in some major unavoidable crisis and they end up in prison/rehab/hospital/whatever.

Some of them do this repeatedly and still don't change. Also, I'm talking now about the more severe end of the spectrum. There's a large segment who are sufficiently socially competent (or aren't so severely damaged) to avoid things ever reaching this stage. Unfortunately for these women, the fact that they are actually 'better' in many senses actually works against them as they never reach that 'bottom out' stage, and so they keep on doing what they do until they become old and bitter and unwanted.

I don't know if you've ever seen the recent movie of the Jack Ketchum novel, 'The Girl Next Door', but the mother in that reminded me of one of these women. She'd spent her youth able to manipulate men and have them do their bidding, but now her husband had left her, her looks had gone, and she was left in poverty, forced to take care of a bunch of kids -- and when a pretty pair of nieces are orphaned and she has to take them in, the anger and resentment boils over and she loses her mind.

I wouldn't recommend the film (or the book) though. One reviewer, after watching it, said 'I wish I could wash my brain out with bleach to eradicate all memory of this film' and I felt pretty much the same way, but it's a very vivid portrait of a woman with a Borderline/Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

.44 , .357 amirite ?

You seem to know quite a bit about this stuff. In your opinion, what are the odds that Brandi (or someone who exhibits the same symptoms, for sake of argument) does serious physical harm to herself or someone else (assuming she doesn't receive any kind of treatment/therapy and is left to her own devices)?

Comparatively low. OK, not low at all compared to the general population, but I don't think it's the major risk that women like Brandi face. It may have been you that has pointed out previously that her apparent self-destructive behaviours (such as self-mutilation, attempted suicide, etc) are actually more explicable as attempts at extended manipulation. So she does it after she's blown thousands of newhizzle's money, or she does it when Brandon dumps her. It's usually an attempt to make them feel sorry for her and persuade them to do what she wants them to do. Of course, sometimes they can miscalculate and screw up.

I should also say here that I've also lived with a woman who fell into this category, and she took her own life. However, she also had psychiatric problems, and there was no mistaking her intent. She'd never made previous attempts. She made arrangements for the care of our five year old son, and did it at a time when she knew that she wouldn't be disturbed for several days, then took a large quantity of alcohol and pills, and left a note stating her intentions and the reasons for it.

So it isn't no risk at all, but I believe Brandi's probably more at risk from others than she is from herself. She's been fairly fortunate over the last year or so, because she's been hanging around a bunch of fairly benevolent people who don't want much from her other than to have sex with her.

As she burns down those bridges, or simply gets older and becomes a less desirable commodity, she's much more likely to start moving in circles that aren't quite so benevolent. At that stage, the prospects of her falling foul of some abusive pimp or some mysogynistic john start to get increasingly high.

Women like Brandi, with what can appear to be an apparent high sense of self-worth (in reality, just another coping mechanism) tend to bring out the worst in such men -- who are always around on the fringes, or even at the centre of any commercial sex scene. Insecure about their own sense of masculinity or self worth, they're often obsessed with the need to 'bring a bitch down a peg or two' -- a tendency that's occasionally been apparent in these threads from time to time, though its mostly understandable here because it's people engaging in rhetoric in response to her poor behavior and her manipulative tendencies.

However, when you have that same tendency in the hands of a violent sociopath who may have suffered at the hands of a Brandi in the past, and is determined that he's never going to suffer that sort of indignity again, then there's an extremely high risk of some extremely bad **** happening.

Why the question mark you GAMBLER !!!!

Thanks for the response. One more speculative question: Assume we have 100 'Brandis', how many of them realistically will end up 'fixed'?

Thanks for the in depth response. I'm going to get that movie tomorrow. lol