Figured it might be worth a discussion - Are re-entries and phase events the issue and the sky is falling, or is the current online snapshot just over saturated with competition making some of the non Scoop/WPT/powerfest/WSOPcircuit/GGseries etc etc big series tournies pale in comparison making it seem like numbers are dropping but after the series are finished numbers in day tournaments will be back up?

What sparked the thought was Pads (owner of the biggest stable in mtt poker AFIK) making this thread saying hes worried, though likely is one of the ones making the most profit off of the current situation too.











Starting to get a lot of replies on twitter from a wide mix of views-

https://twitter.com/padsPokerSquad/s...70798992617480

Maybe a huge incoming financial crisis where the amount of people with disposable income to burn on poker is vanquished has something to do with it.

So high roller tournaments became too regular thus making the weaker players unable to afford them... and online poker is now dead?

Seems just that higher buyin everything is becoming less popular.

ehhhh nah

more like there's a finite amount of fun player money in mtts and the re entry boom is causing the fun player money pool to trend downward instead of staying in a healthy fun player -> bill-paying player ecosystem

Meh hard to listen to a shill running a stable, obviously he cares most about his bottom line

If he cares about online poker, then he would abolish his stable, but he only cares about making money for himself.

Phase tournaments are pretty trash. Day 2 full of regs. Of course re-entries similar, but not to same extent.

this is obv lol

and him caring about his bottom line is vaguely correlated with the health of the mtt economy but i do think he's taking a hit on this stance. his stable stands to gain a ton short term if sites pump unlimited re entries, but his stable long term probably stands to suffer. preserve long term good EV at the expenses of amazing short term EV and bad long term EV.

in the biggest poker boom in years he somehow finds something to complain about. as a stable owner he has the gall to complain about some random mtt overlaying which is for some reason the calling card to a financial crisis? what a joke

He's obviously correct in what he says...the quicker the net losing players lose their money, the less tournaments will run overall long term. It just comes across as kind of tone deaf because him coaching and staking players also hastens the decline of a healthy MTT ecosystem.

the only real threat to online mtt's atm are the stables. and thats about it

This.

wtf he's talkin about? he is running a ***** stable (admitting sharing databases, etc.) that is the real cancer.

Quoted for infinity

Also **** scumbags who only care about making money but try to present themselves as doing it "for the good of the game". I'd at least have some respect if he had the balls to say he feels is bottom line is being affected. Don't give me this "long term health of the game" bullshit.

ITT losing poker players get triggered over something they have literally no control over

Why are stables bad?

(serious question, I'm a rec)

Unlimited bankrolls + coaching, sharing databases of hands, colluding + ghosting on deep runs from crushers too name a few

From the players perspective can turn into a slavery contract if get down deep in mu

They take (more) money out of the poker economy.

They take players who are good, give them free coaching from elite players and stake them into games that are bigger than they would normally play.

Did I just read this correctly, that he claims his stable has invested 10.000.000$+ in the last two month (first tweet somewhere).

Does he mean over his whole career or am I missing something. How freaking big have these stable have become?!?

Like seriously wtf if that is true. I know they have a huge amount of players, etc.

Do think pads is getting a little more heat then he should.

Can be pretty sure that poker sites didn't add re-entry with the long term health of the MTT pool in mind...

Sounds like a huge amount - 8 figures, its actually pretty reasonable, just running the roughest of numbers lets suppose Pads stable has total of 50 players with a $100 abi and they play 2000 tournaments thats $10m. Stable been going a long time, ABI probs higher and he probs has more than 50 players. Advantage gambling is about two things, edge and turnover. No good running a stable with a 15% roi and only doing $1m worth of tournaments p yr

Oh tens of millions in the last two months!

Yeah i take it back, that's a **** load haha

l read it again, he specifically talks about last two month and "this" time frame when he talks about 10million+ investment.

Can this be possible? If that is only remotely true, then he has is freaking answer. Sites are killing poker but these stables are an equally big problem.

Where does this amount of money even come from. I doubt that all the hs players involved have their whole net worth in the stable Br.

Think he means 10 mill because of scoop, most horses are probably playing most events, inflating buy ins from normal times with no scoop or wcoop etc

- i dont think anyone outside of trust fund babies actually has the bankroll to grind HSMTTs and high rollers regularly. no different from elite portfolio managers needing outside investment to make big money at a hedge fund

- imagine running a stable and then not ensuring your horses have adequate coaching or improvement. sounds like a shitty stable.

- colluding or ghosting sounds like fake news, bad regs love to cry about this but nobody has ever proven it. if they did pads would get ****ing ban hammered. prove it if i'm wrong.

- players can negotiate deals beforehand that don't put them into slavery, don't blame pads if the horse agrees to a shitty deal

LOL at being mad because they take more money out of the poker community, that's the idea genius

2nd part is totally normally too, wut? imagine having the capital to turn good players into great players and print a 20% ROI and not doing that.

ITT ppl mad at innovation/evolution. sry friendos, your idea of a poker mtt harmony where everyone plays their own bankroll and stays isolated from each other isn't happening. if your dreams came true then partypoker would prob have to lower their 1MM guarantees down to 200k guarantees and then you'd be mad at sites for not attracting enough customers. stables generate rake, so long as they don't crush the ecosystem too quick they will always be valuable to site operators. pads feels like the sheep is getting shorn too aggro.