I'm now optimistic.

Can we loose cautiously yet?

Please Stars!

The first of the three new charges of wire fraud against players relates to a wire on July 18, 2008. The second to a wire on September 7, 2010, and the third to a wire on February 14, 2011. All of these were before BF.

There has been no hint of PS ever defrauding players, but lots of indication that AP/UB defrauded both players and shareholders. I really hope we see new criminal charges against Scott Tom, but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't think he was blindsided, I think he was probably blinded by ego. It would be interesting to know if he acted against the advice of counsel.

I think most defense attorneys would read the USAO's refusal to commit to no further charges as the same as acknowledging that more charges were forthcoming.

What would approximately be the value of 1 dollar of FTP money now?

I'm curious about that as well. Paul Weiss is no Jacoby and Myers, or Jeff Ifrah (no offense, Jeff, if you're reading). They are arguably one of the top five litigation shops in the country, and their white-collar practice is top notch. I'm finding it fairly tough to believe that they were just "blindsided" by the DOJ actions and additional charges. I doubt they would advise a client to return to the U.S. without receiving some assurances; and I doubt Bitar would go off on his own and INSIST on returning, against counsel's advice.

Which is why I can't help but think this is all kabuki theatre. The DOJ has to act tough, put on a good show, but at the end of the day, I think they just want this to be over. They are in the business of enforcing the laws of the United States, not overseeing the merger of two foreign corporate entities. They just wanted to shut down the sites and get a few convictions -- not be embroiled in a years-long corporate liquidation. I doubt they would do anything to jeopardize the orderly conclusion of this whole mess.

I don't think this is true the way I read it

Bitar was originally charges with:

UIGEA Conspiracy

UIGEA

Operation of an Illegal Gambling Business

Conspiracy to commit Bank and Wire Fraud

Money Laundering Conspiracy

The indictment today has new charges but not all of them relate to fraud against players or at least that's how I read it.

The new indictment has these charges which are not player fraud related and charges that UB/PS could (likely?) face.

Conspiracy to Defraud Banks

Money Laundering Conspiracy: Promotion

Money Laundering Conspiracy: Use Of Funds


Couldn't those charges also potentially apply to PS/UB

IMO Isa isn't out of the woods yet

lol did nobody notice this line?

I wonder how long it will take for Ray's family and friends to dig up the shoe boxes full of hundreds to get the bail $$$$. It will be funny if his temp cell mate has funds frozen on ftp.

PokerStars deal for FTP and playing poker online in the US are two different things. They are not related.

IMO it will very unlikely ever happen (although, it has to be caveat in the negotiations and one of the reasons why they are taking so long) but no, I would have no reservations of giving a regulated online poker room money. (in order for them to open to US citizens, they will be regulated in some fashion by a US entity be it State or US govt.)

Ray Bitar does not work for PokerStars. He makes licence plates for the State of NY.

Ray loves
NY

It was certainly never 100% on the up. It was certainly never 100% black either. They know this AND the DOJ knows this, UIGEA was written to be grey.

(And probably one of the reasons Bitar pleaded not guilty to all charges as the UIGEA 'bite' is likely weak. See Campos - Online Poker Defendant Campos Gets Three-Month Sentence)

Let me join the cheering throngs!

Who, me?

Or perhaps it's just that I am sometimes negligent in the use of smilies to clarity intent.

I'd say your detection gear is in good working order.

0 (right now (try cashing it out...))

Edit: ill guess at it tho: $.75, keep in mind buyers won't pay what its worth unless they make a -ev investment.(which most won't do!)

Whatever someone will pay for it. Which means the agreement between A & B could result I'm it being worth $.45 and an agreement between C & D could be $.80.

Cheap response but that's the truth. Some sellers don't need the money as bad as other sellers etc. So many variables between different parties that can affect the price. (Trust, USA , non USA, amount, etc.) Generally, buyers will always look for the cheaper sellers but some may pay more from certain sellers for various reasons.

This made me smile. Some justice at last, for whatever its worth.

Correct.

And this is also the reason why they are in talks with the DOJ. (which also includes they bailout of the FTP scam (yes, lets start calling this a scam please) which would include FTP assets.)

PStars gets: FTP assets. (which arent worth below but Isa has to clear things up.)
DOJ gets: the players money back.
Isa gets: free of charges.

For sure the USAO is thinking about tomorrow and how to conclude this matter. Getting tough with Bitar doesn't encourage other parties to surrender. It doesn't make sense unless they don't need to the other parties to surrender, it is all theater or making Bitar the really bad, evil, fall guy justifies agreeing to probation for others (I have someone in mind) or something I can't think of . Maybe Bitar has agreed to take the fall, others walk but Bitar's family gets paid privately, wouldn't be too unusual and would work as part of a global resolution.

Has it been confirmed that Isa would be free of all charges if PS settles the civil casees for PS/FTP? It seems a little far fetched too me that the DOJ would be willing to drop all criminal charges against one of the main men to settle the civil case. Although I could be wrong and hope I am, it doesn't seem like something the DOJ would be willing to do.

oh yes please !

No.

This is something I was wondering too. Assuming Ray gets substantial jail time, Will a judge allow such a move even if the DOJ agrees to free Isai of all charges?

Ray is unlikely to be sentenced for months, and the judge has little choice. He can theoretically do things that are never done, like appoint a special prosecutor, but he can't force the DoJ to prosecute a case they don't want.

This whole issue really hasn't became a public issue in mainstream America so if they let him go scott free who's going to care??

Mind you they'd never let him go totally free unless he pays/bribes a little more then he was going to already. tbh as long as players funds are returned I couldn't give 2 pieces of toilet paper whether he walks clean or spends a lifetime in prison. Is he totally innocent of all the charges.. almost certainly not... but right now he seems like the best chance for players to get their funds back and if he's going to use that as leverage to reduce or get rid of all charges against him then so be f'n it. Nobody really cares.

How many bankers have gone to prison since they took 700 billion in a single day from Tax payers? Answer None.

OP comes through

interested in next thread

Who knows? I'm guessing their evidence against Isai isn't nearly as substantial as what they have on Bitar.