There is a difference between Stealing (theft) vs robbery (threat of harm to victim by the perpetrator while taking somethign of value from them). Stealing such as somebody snatching somebodys purse or shop lifting is different then robbery where somebody comes in with a weapona nd threatens your health, wellbeing or life if you dont give up what they want and in some cases no guarantees they wont harm you even if you do give in tot heir demands hence why deadly force is justifiable in cases such as this.. Any threat of violence or threat to life and limb is much different then what you are talking about. IE youc ant shoot somebody runnign away in th eback thats not justifiable but if some a-hole has a sawed off shotgun or a glock pointed at you or waiving around as if they are threatening you then all bets are off.

PS if you feel otherwise either you've never been a victim of crime or 2 your just a pantywadded left wing pansy who think because some moron had a bad childhood and didnt get hugged enough by mommy and daddy it makes his behavior acceptable.

Wow people are throwing around the word 'innocent' like crazy in this thread. I guess life's easy if there's the good and the bad guys.

One problem. If you wait till he shows intent IE shoots somebody then you're already too late in preventing his actions. The assumption is if somebody has a loaded weapon and points it at somebody then he has intent to use it and thus is subject to deadly force being applied to him period. The Police surelywouldnt wait till a criminal shoots somebody before taking them down. By your logic we'd have a lot more dead people if we waited till somebody killed another before we know if they might do something..

Are you serious?? How complicated is it.. 2 guys kick down door with guns and demand money. If that is a complicated situation for you then maybe you need to go back to Train A leaves NY going 65mph heading to Chicago and Train B leaves Chicago going 60mph when will the 2 meet because obviously your ability to wrap your heads around anything remotely complicated is obviously very limited. BTW please tell us where you play poker becuase if you cant grasp straight forward situations you obviously are a FISH at the tables or a calling station either way your easy money

Good or bad is irrelivent to the discussion. The NC statute JUSTIFIES his actions. How good of a person either party involved happens to be has no value.

The legislators saw fit to give the occupants of a home significant latitude in their actions. They can use ANY LEVEL OF FORCE to end the unlawful entry if they have a reasonable belief that the intruder intends them bodily harm or injury.

So
1) Violent and armed felon unlawfully enters residence
2) The shooter has a reasonable belief the criminals intend him or others bodily harm.
3) The shooter has an opportunity to use lethal force to terminate the unlawful entry.
4) The law as written in NC JUSTIFIES that chain of events.

"Good" or "Bad" is a moral question not a legal one. Innocence relies on the law not morality.

If you feel the law gives the law abiding too much power and live in NC then vote to have the law changed.

I got an even more screwed up situation for ya. How about an individual who was legitimately injured and is collecting Short Term disability and abotu to be on Long Term disability but heres the thing. The guy DOESnt want to be on disability. He wants to go back to work but his ****ty health insurance company keeps denying coverage for his surgery he needs to fix his back problem (ruptured disc in lower back and severe degen disc disease) and fusion truly is the only option but the insurance company just continues to stonewall and doesnt even offer to try and work out the situation. The 1st appeal with the ins company was done by a family practice MD (how the hell is a regular family MD qualified to determine if a person needs spinal surgery by a neurosurgeon???) Apparently the Insurance company would rather this person stay on disability and be on narcotic pain meds instead of paying to fix the person and allow them to get back to being a productive member of society (did I mention this person isnt even 40 yrs old yet!!).. So truthfully some people dont choose to be in this situation they are in but get screwed by their own insurance companies when they are totally fixable and could and happily would go back to work if they could..

PS Yeah Im venting becuase Its ME whos in this situation. BCBS of NC sucks ass and can kiss mine right now..

wait were the guns real or not? im confused now

I'm not going to contradict Bull because I've not spoken with the homeowner yet. I live around the corner and have played at the game in the last month. It's not a big game. There were only 12 players in the house at the time.

A 2+2er was there when everything happened. If he wants to chime in, I'm sure he will, but he's in shock, and even though he was sitting right there he has some trouble really piecing details together completely coherently. His story does not mesh well with what Bull has said happened. (but in concurrence, nobody was found in the front yard, except a player that was outside trying not to **** his pants. The dead guy was shot 4-5 times in the chest.)

I can say that when the two guys came in the house, in ski masks, guns up.. everyone laughed. Everyone assumed it was a joke, until it very clearly wasn't a joke.

You guys get back to your completely incoherent and silly debate on the castle doctrine.

He barged into someone else's home waiving a gun (you have to assume they're ready to kill someone) trying to hold people up. He got the gun taken away from him and shoot and killed sounds fair to me. You don't just barge into someones home and not expect to get shot if caught.

The debate in this thread is pretty interesting.... (just an aside below)

I remember watching a movie a little while ago called "Funny Games" or something like that. Different situation than what happened here completely BUT its interesting because of how the whole situation escalates and how far the victims let it get before they realize what is going on.

Sorry for the aside, but for the people doing all the debating over what should happen when the armed robbers come in this might be a worthwhile movie you'd enjoy (regardless if you are on the "shoot em" or "talk to em" side of the argument). Its obviously a little violent, but the way things develop really make it more of a thriller and makes you wonder what you would do in that spot as the situation escalated.

this is the third time ive stopped going to a game in raleigh because i felt unsafe. and wouldnt you know it, all 3 times something ended up happening.

first one was when my buddys .50/1 game near NCSU got robbed. they made off with a few game consoles and a small amount of cash. i had warned the guy running the game that a few of the dudes were incredibly shady and were the type that would pull some **** like that. about a week later the robbery went down.

second time was when i played at johnnys game. any local who is reading this thread definitely knew about that game. played there 2 or 3 times, decided it was inevitable that something was gonna go down sooner or later... SWAT team busted in on that one recently, apparently seizing ~50k from johnny.

and now this. i only played at the game twice. i had a strange feeling the second time i played. there were about 10 more people that played throughout the night than there were the first time i was there. i felt suspicious of a few guys that were there, but didnt immediately suspect that anybody was scoping out the place or planning anything. however, the game didnt have any security. the door was unlocked when we arrived both times, and you could partially see the dining room where the game was taking place. this is why i decided to stop going after playing there only twice. ive seen/read enough to know that any idiot crackhead who is desperate enough can and will try to rob a game that has a few thousand dollars in the room, and if you arent on top of your security, youre a sitting duck. the players were pretty bad IMO, but even that wasnt enough to prevent me from staying away.

i really hate the fact that we cant even play a stupid 1/2 game in this city because of the very real and present danger of getting robbed or busted. its a shame. with black friday killing internet poker, and all of the local games getting shut down because of things like this, we're not left with any options.

This whole event is seriously sad. I've only played at the game 3 times in the last year and half or so, but I know the guy who runs the game and the "ex army sniper" and it really couldn't have happened to two better guys. And lol at the news calling it high stakes...the fact that there was only ~$2k in the house and that someone was killed is, again, just sad. All that said, I was a little shocked that the front door was never locked in the couple of times I played in the game.

Finally:
If the robber was on the back deck then I'm assuming he was trying to get the key to the safe from the homeowner? If so, then I would think the person shooting the gun would have 3rd party defense and not be charged with anything.

Fwiw, if 2 men walked into my house with guns and ski masks, I'd freak out beyond belief and, given my mental state at that moment, would shoot first and ask questions later.

lmao

sigh...wish my line of work was safer.

Also I am no incredibly curious who all the NC people are in this thread because I'm sure I've played with all/most of you.

Look, robberies happen. Shootings happen. People die. But you're telling me this dude brought his fat ass girlfriend to a home game? Simply unacceptable.

To be fair, I don't really see why guys bring their girlfriends to poker games. Seems like it would be boring as hell for the girl, and the guy is there to play poker. What's the point? I can see how having some random fat chick hanging around your game constantly might get on your nerves.

EDIT: tolerable if the guy is the host.

They definitely needed a "No Girls or Robbers Allowed!!" sign hanging on the front door at this game

You jest, but there is a tournament here in Raleigh that has a strict "No Female Players Allowed" policy.

What is the reasoning behind a "middle-school-no-girls-allowed-in-my-clubhouse" policy?

Sigh. No online poker. No live poker. Please don't shutdown the strip clubs or all my vices will be gone.

Lol. Pretty much just laughing at you, man. Still am, too.

Crazy, used to frequent that game when I was in college. Greg is a cool dude, hate that all this is happening.

to those wondering what the shooter will get convicted for...appx. nothing. this is NC not san francisco. if you put him in front of any "properly" selected jury theyll prob give him a medal. im not even sure theyve outlawed slavery in NC. if i ever "accidentally" empty a clip on an injured guy i sure as hell want it to be in _______ carolina or texas.

LOL!

NC is not as bad as you are making it seem. I live in Raleigh. Its normal man, nothing like Texas

or Florida


Yeah these southern states actually treat the criminals like criminals unlike California which treats the criminals like victims. **** that state