Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem

11-22-2012 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clever Nickname
Also, the idea of taxing winning withdrawals at 50% and "advertising the advantages" is going to drive away waaaaay more fish than it brings in. The big advantage of table rake is that fish don't notice it. A fish can pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars in rake without even blinking, but as soon as they try to withdraw and get hit with a $200 fee they will go ballistic. If you try to advertise "hey, here's how bad table rake is screwing you, enjoy withdrawal fees instead!" all you're going to do is make fish aware of the rake and discourage deposits.
The idea was not to bring fish in. I'm not interested in fooling people into thinking that rake is negligible. Btw, weak poker players aren't necessarily as stupid as some of you seem to think.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-22-2012 , 11:37 AM
anyone else noticed this thread (and many others) not getting flooded by HUD-bots and affiliate shills trying to sell their snake oil to the players? more than one thing has changed since BF i guess.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-22-2012 , 11:41 AM
why don't sites offer more large reload bonuses, that clear at good rates? I think this would be a win-win situation, and pump money into the economy better than anything else.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-22-2012 , 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by czGLoRy
why don't sites offer more large reload bonuses, that clear at good rates? I think this would be a win-win situation, and pump money into the economy better than anything else.
bonus bots love suggestions like these.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-22-2012 , 03:20 PM
I been playing at a site giving players 80% rakeback and its very nice.

Just turned 700 into over 15k ..
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-22-2012 , 04:41 PM
i have a stone. when i rub it it makes gutters come in 100%. this could easily turn your 15k into 200k. PM me if interested.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-22-2012 , 05:33 PM
Time for your meds mme.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-22-2012 , 06:50 PM
It would be dope if 2p2 + poker communities from other languages got together and made a site which was break even after marketing, software, and other running costs. The Sites are taking billions out of the player economy in rake.
Kind of like when you join a football club you pay subs for equipment, maintenance of the grounds etc. but nobody is buying any BMWs with the money you contribute.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-23-2012 , 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkchamp
It would be dope if 2p2 + poker communities from other languages got together and made a site which was break even after marketing, software, and other running costs. .
A guy called Isai did exactly this - developed a great software + customer support + marketing and paid nice dividends to the regs 2+2 and other large poker communities while he is pocketing the rest into his pocket, rightfully so, as he took the risk to build this site + is managing it 24/7.

Fair play IMO

Question is whether regs are entitled to higher dividends is open and each one has the right to play elsewher or to start his own online poker business.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-23-2012 , 04:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disputable
Question is whether regs are entitled to higher dividends is open and each one has the right to play elsewher or to start his own online poker business.
then feel free to give your favourite customers a share in the company. this is not the same as giving them an edge at the tables.

Last edited by mme; 11-23-2012 at 04:43 PM. Reason: quote
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-23-2012 , 05:45 PM
- keep rake the same
- eliminate rake back
- introduce 365 d/years happy hr promotions
- 24/7 hand promotions & giveaways on the tables


regs will still have incentive to grind loads of tables n hrs as they stand a greater chance of hitting all the promotions & fish still have the chance of making a big score even if they suck at poker by luckboxing a milestone/promo

jajajaja
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-23-2012 , 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mme
anyone else noticed this thread (and many others) not getting flooded by HUD-bots and affiliate shills trying to sell their snake oil to the players? more than one thing has changed since BF i guess.
No but I noticed that you are obsessed with HUDs. In fact you're probably the only one on 2p2 that keep talking about them in a negative way.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
11-23-2012 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0nk3y
No but I noticed that you are obsessed with HUDs. In fact you're probably the only one on 2p2 that keep talking about them in a negative way.
well, there are some serious open questions around them and no one ever got any answer from the sites. they just duck away and hope to make a few more bucks before the train hits them.

my question stands.

btw, i do not only have a magic stone. i have dices as well. i call them "VIP dices". they make doubles slightly more often than regular dices. if you play enough backgammon i will flag your account so you can use them in the games. PM me if intersted.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 11:39 AM
In summary:

1. The "fish money" is the fuel of the poker economy and ultimately is transferred to the sites and the good players and this amount, which we'll call total profit, is split at some % between the two.

2. The above % is a function of the rake which is controlled by the site.

3. There will always be more "fish money" as fish don't care if it's poker or any other -EV game; they just want to gamble.

4. There won't necessarily always be more profit for good players as they are at the mercy of the rake which is forever out of their control.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clfst17
In summary:

1. The "fish money" is the fuel of the poker economy and ultimately is transferred to the sites and the good players and this amount, which we'll call total profit, is split at some % between the two.

2. The above % is a function of the rake which is controlled by the site.

3. There will always be more "fish money" as fish don't care if it's poker or any other -EV game; they just want to gamble.

4. There won't necessarily always be more profit for good players as they are at the mercy of the rake which is forever out of their control.
Remember that the term 'fish' is only relative to the skill levels of the player pool that they choose to swim. Alot of last years breakven regs become this year's fish as alot of last years fish quit.

This is why I think HUD's, multitabling etc is fine because the game has changed and this years fish know its now a game of software and skill, for the same reason it's not ok to over-rake this game any more as the new fish yielding smaller edges to pros are FAR MORE aware of rake, allinEV etc. Keepiing the rake the same and not allowing variance to confuse this player pool is lifting the curtain and showing all the new fish how bad they are. Over-raking now will be the new Pokertableratings.

I also think this new fish type who lurk forums need good examples and inspiring stories of pros that have made it. The depressing outlook for even the best pros these days is going to kill off an idustry that would have plenty more growth.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 12:14 PM
yea its fine even though it leads to much tighter games and people nitting it up on 24 tables grinding vpp points
and then people wonder why the games went to hell lol
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
yea its fine even though it leads to much tighter games and people nitting it up on 24 tables grinding vpp points
and then people wonder why the games went to hell lol
24-tabling nits are very beatable = good games, and if the average fish is playing atleast 2 tables with plenty of software to mess about with then this format is hardly boring.

This would be an exciting direction for the industry, poker becomes a nerdy sport of the mind for the masses which is a brilliant image for poker as it loses its ties to casinos and underground gambling, imagine the player pools then!...But I think this growth is being stunted by over-raked games
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by POW
24-tabling nits are very beatable = good games, and if the average fish is playing atleast 2 tables with plenty of software to mess about with then this format is hardly boring.

This would be an exciting direction for the industry, poker becomes a nerdy sport of the mind for the masses which is a brilliant image for poker as it loses its ties to casinos and underground gambling, imagine the player pools then!...But I think this growth is being stunted by over-raked games
you really don't get it
you cant have it both ways
you can't want a bunch of things like mass multitablers which absolutely kill the games long term and then turn around and ask for lower rake under that same long term game quality argument.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
you really don't get it
you cant have it both ways
you can't want a bunch of things like mass multitablers which absolutely kill the games long term and then turn around and ask for lower rake under that same long term game quality argument.
On the contrary, the 2 go hand in hand. More tables being played by a larger player pool who are also wiley to their profits and rake from software calls for much lower rake, not only to induce this bigger market, but to sustain it.

Mass multitabling, increasing skill levels and improved software is unavoidable in the free online poker market, so its important to be realistic and work WITH these concepts in mind when trying to improve the market
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
you really don't get it
you cant have it both ways
you can't want a bunch of things like mass multitablers which absolutely kill the games long term and then turn around and ask for lower rake under that same long term game quality argument.
What makes a game quality? Action? If the average *fish has a few tables running with stats, giraffes etc, how much more stimulation does the average player need?

* the term 'fish' being relative to the skill of the player pool
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-01-2012 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mme
bonus bots love suggestions like these.
I think everyone loves large, frequent reload bonuses, including the poker economy and all of the players, but maybe thats just crazy talk
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-02-2012 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0nk3y
No but I noticed that you are obsessed with HUDs. In fact you're probably the only one on 2p2 that keep talking about them in a negative way.
I'm on that bandwaggon too.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-02-2012 , 01:03 AM
Since rake isn't going to be touched for the foreseeable future, according to todays announcement, I think we should be focused on other ideas to reduce Pstars's expenses so a rake drop could be done in the future.

For example they are giving away 10 PCA Packages via freerolls. That's 160k. I think giving away packages to smaller regional tours will accomplish the same mission but at a way cheaper price. Most regional tours are under 2.5kus and offer a hobbyist a great experience (especially if they can arrange for a sponsored player to have a dinner with these winners) but at a fraction of the cost compared to the PCA.

This player will still come home and spread the gospel about Pokerstars to his friends and will have lifelong memories about his trip.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-02-2012 , 01:08 AM
Less rake is less promotions so less fish in the long run. There will also be more players who will turn pro and there are a lot more players who turn pro then people who stop playing poker for a living. At the end 95% is broke.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote
12-02-2012 , 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miguelll
Less rake is less promotions so less fish in the long run. There will also be more players who will turn pro and there are a lot more players who turn pro then people who stop playing poker for a living. At the end 95% is broke.
Rake is grossely over-priced and most pay zero corporate tax, all the top online businesses manage to promote their businesses well without skinning their customers, this just isn't an excuse.
Rake pricing for a sustainable poker ecosystem Quote

      
m