There's a huge difference between "standard" and "legal". Just because a bunch of insiders try to run a confidence game saying it's standard, doesn't mean it is.

Again, the California Justice department told me it doesn't sound right, they will commence an investigation, and keep me updated.

Again, the head of Bay 101 compliance said his floor man acted in an unprofessional way, it doesn't sound right to him, he will investigate.

Just because some crooked floor man try to run a confidence game and insist something is legal, doesn't make it so .

Finally, poker is a highly, highly regulated environment. All these people comparing it to a night club, or a roofing contract, or anything at all have no idea what they're talking about. These cardrooms can't even play dealer in a hand of blackjack without the indians coming down on their ass because California voters said that's the right of the Indians. now they're trying to act like they have the right to privatize a public card game ? These card rooms run their operation under the blessings of the California government , they are not the final arbiters of what's legal, Sacramento is, and Sacramento told me this doesn't sound right.

Bay 101 management wants to fight sacramento so some prop players can corner the whales in his game? Doesn't sound like a good use of their time or lawyers but it's a bold strategy, let's see if it pays off for them. I did not get the impression from Bay 101 compliance their plan was to battle Sacramento, instead I was told that the way their floor acted was not the level of professionalism that Bay 101 expects from their employees.

I will say yet again, if you live in California and don't agree with this practice, give the number in my OP a call. This is not a "standard" practice, that is a confidence game. 1 person complains, justice department might agree its bullshit but not pursue it. 30 people complain, it will get looked at. Stop letting insiders try to pull the wool over your eyes, these casinos are public casinos permitted and regulated by public taxpayers, this ain't a new jersey underground game.

^but you were 10th on the waitlist, the seat wasn’t yours to take, even though you tried to commandeer it.

“Justice Dept.” isn’t investigating this, unless by “investigating” you mean laughing their ass off as soon as they hung up the phone.

Close thread were good

I recognized some names on the list ahead of me as no-shows. The game was starting, dealer dealt cards for seat draw and even dealt me a seat. The players who seat I supposedly stole weren't even at the casino.

Amateur crooked floorman way overreached pulling me off a public game given preferential treatment to certain players. I'm laughing at the idea he could "chew me out". Based on my conversation with casino management, he's going to be lucky if he still has a job next week trying to pull a stunt like he did.

I spoke with justice department for 20 minutes. He told me it doesn't sound right to him but it might take some time to reach a final conclusion because the regulation is a "very thick book" but he specifically asked if I wanted to be updated about the outcome and I said yes. I'm expecting a followup but if not I will be pro-active in pursuing once since we need an official stance from Sacramento on this practice either way.

And once again, same braindead arguments get repeated. This is NOT people pulling pros out of a game beacuse they're bad for a game. This game is filled with the same 5-7 pros every times it runs. This is a few pros wanting to corner the inflow of public games whales into their own private game. I'm not a pro player and yet I get curated off even though there's pros who get to be part of this lineup every day. It's a racket , plain and simple, "suck to <prop player>" = "bribe us as much as the pros who get play bribe us".

Now a bunch of these pros busting out their old 2p2 accounts to pretend like it's totally normally to pull players off open seats at public games because public poker games are night clubs now. Get real. Sorry your jig is up. Learn to reg battle or get a real job.

Nah I'm good I'm gonna keep bumhunting. Maybe you reg battle or get a real job. Sorry you don't have the pull to get a seat in a good game.

sounds like you need to take your own advice. i play in tons of good games without having to call the justice department.

Just reading the way you post and the things that bother you it's obvious why people don't want you in their game.

You jump the list (it doesn't matter if you think people ahead of you aren't there) so you already pissed off the floor. I'm also sure this wasn't the first time you did something like this to piss him off.

Then you ask what it takes to get in the game he gives you a tongue in cheek answer which you take literally. Somehow you turn his answer into a responsible gaming issue ,casinos have signs up about this all over blah blah blah.You sound like fun at parties. And of course even though what he was effectively saying was to give action,you report him to his supervisor and are bragging about the fact you may be getting him fired.

I'm sure you're real popular in this room. You're definitely the guy who sucks the fun out of the game,trying to call every ticky tack rule under the sun,ignoring intent while doing shady stuff yourself (ie line jumping). You probably would have called the floor and called gaming if you were in the game where Bill Perkins went for his flight after going all in.

People like you are a huge reason why these private games exist in the first place.

You also should learn how to use the word curated properly since you seem to like it almost as much as you like ruining fun poker atmospheres.

By his own account OP just jumped into the seat without going to board/floor

Then was completely vague about who exactly took his seat, was it someone in starting lineup who signed up night before and was running a few minutes late?

He’s doing a lot of yelling and rambling on but not providing many relevant facts.

He’s good at story telling and even I sided with him after reading his first post. But then I realized it was probably just a starting lineup game and he potentially tried to jump someone running a few minutes late

Provide details on how long your seat was empty before it was filled by someone who was not yet at casino. The game just started and when someone “locks up” a seat they typically have a set amount of time, say 30 minutes or so before they lose it.

But in general, even if you are sure you are next up, standard practice is to get floor to seat you. You don’t just jump in.

Lol at being able to get into good games without calling justice department

I think he might actually get the floor guy in trouble because of responsible gaming stuff, like joking about bombs on airplanes

But he’s not right in general sense about the situation. Perhaps he might calm down if he realizes exactly what happened

Totally independent from the issue at hand here and if something at Bay 101 is going change or not:
The by far best advice for anyone trying to make money in live poker is to find good private games. That's the most important poker skill these days.

All the people saying "its a set lineup'. Ok but then what is the criteria for setting the lineup? This is why I'm saying it's not just about me getting waitlisted one day. It's also about me asking how I get in the game the next time, and instead of a reasonable response I get pressured to gamble recklessly and asked for a bribe. I asked for the criteria for setting the lineup, I wasn't given it.

If we're going to say the casino can arbitrarily set the lineup of a public game with no clear criteria, then that means if you're on the wrong side of the floor you can get arbitrarily boxed out of public games. It also obviously sets up poor incentives, and we see that exactly playing out where it looks a lot to me like there's a few insiders who make sure their horses get in the games and they cherry-pick the weakest players to walk into the casino into the lion's den, probably sharing action between pros and floor. I was also in this casino in person so overheard some gossip, and I play in some local rooms where I hear the grapevine gossip, I'm not sharing every private conversation but I can recognize a racket when I see one and this is a racket.

I don't give the Justice Department a call about the lastest movies. This is the first and only time I've reported anything, because it's obviously illegal ****, and if this trend continues is going to ruin my favorite card game of 20 years and I'm not here for that.

It blows my mind how bad people's reading comprehension is. Multiple times I've said poker has never been my primary source of income. And yet people are still telling me to get a real job or this is just how it goes if you want to be a live poker pro. I'm not a pro. I'll give you a hint, I'm playing at Bay 101, in the heart of silicon valley,r, what I could possibly do for a living? My career is software.

But I've played poker for the last 20 years, its' one of my favorite hobbies, but now in order to play in a 5/10 game in a local public casino I have to bribe or butter up a bunch of crooks? I have zero interest in doing that. I like playing cards. If people are saying, you make more money with the soft skills hustling into juicy private games, that's great, I respect that hustle, but just keep that hustle to actually private games. Don't hijack the public games because for all your soft skills, you actually don't have enough connections to get the whales in your game without stealing them from the casino wait list. The whole root issue is not private games, as I've said a million times , I have zero objections to private games. I have objections to treating public games like their private games for the benefit of a few insiders.

"Setting a lineup" based on secret, arbitrary criteria is for private games, not public games. If there are some logistics necessary to get these games going, that's fine, that's why I asked for a phone number and was refused, and why I offered a phone number and was refused. If they said , "sorry today we can't get you in, but here's the system to make sure you get in this game sometime", that'd be fine. Instead I see a few pros play in this game every day and I get boxed out the session after I beat them up badly.

There needs to be a fair and transparent system. And if there's a _little_ fudge, if the floor makes sure that the VIP always gets a seat or that the guy who logs a lot of hours gets a few bumps, then fine. That'd be speeding 1MPH over the limit. By systematically picking lineups and asking for bribes and locking out people you don't like out of the local 5/10 game is a bullshit, illegal racket, and absolutely terrible for poker as a whole and the only people arguing otherwise are trying to protect their little piece of this racket.

I again need a break from all these people twisting my words, twisting the truth, twisting the law, bringing up irrelevant **** but I do want to say one more time that if you agree that public games should remain open to the public in a fair and transparent manner than the best way to do that is contact the gaming commission as I mentioned in my OP post, I think it'll really help if they here it from more than a few people.

I don't know how Bay 101 handles it. But in a lot of private games, it's exactly that: You pay the host. For example with a percentage of your profits. Some of that he keeps, the rest gets distributed between the action players to keep them happy.

Nobody agrees with the response you got from the floor. That was unprofessional. For example, he could have said the other players weren't happy with the amount of action you were giving.

Lol no one care how long you’ve played poker for

Please just answer the most relevant questions so we can figure out what happened and how this game is run

1) who did you get bumped for? One of the original 9 on list?
2) how long until they showed up?

My guess is that you don’t have to “bribe a bunch of crooks to get in the STARTING lineup”. Just play a few times and be relatively pleasant then possibly get on some text/ whatsApp chain..but whatever, let’s take this one step at time

Without more info I’m not automatically included in determining that floor out of line. Based on the info we have, OP jumped into game without permission.

The other players probably didn’t even know who OP was. Assuming they were waiting on one of original nine who signed up night before and was running a little late the floor could have done a better job explaining that simple situation. But I wouldn’t call it unprofessional and “gambling like a trust fund baby” was obvious joke.

Of course if OP got bumped for someone who was lower on the list he has a legit gripe. But thus far this simple but highly relevant question not answered

I was referring to the "gamble like you're a trust fund baby" comment. That doesn't sound like something you should say if following responsible gaming procedures is part of your job.

Whats the point of saying no one cares how long he has played?
I think it's relevant, but who cares...
You just like being an *******?

He’s states it a few times while ignoring the relevant questions to figure out what happened.

If it was one of original 9 who signed up and they showed in short manner of time he needs to sit down and receive an education. If it was someone below him he has a legit gripe and I’ll support him.

I’m neutral on being an *****, it’s just necessary sometimes to make a point clear.

I get it, but clearly sounds like a joke, and don’t think it will cause this guy to go out and lose a bunch of money.

But the guy may indeed lose his job over it. Not because the starting list is a racket

I don't think it's a big deal. But it's certainly unprofessional to joke about responsible gaming issues, especially towards someone who is complaining to you about something.

In my last post I wrote the word "private" where I meant "public" and I was quoted, I edited it but there's been a lot of unnecessary ambiguity and twisting of words in this thread so I want to re-iterate and summarize.

1. I have NO problem with any sort of private games, at a casino or elsewhere. If it's your private game, you get to pick whoever you want to play. You can set the lineup, block pros, whatever you want to do.

2. I have a big problem with PUBLIC games being treated like their private games, specifically in the setting the lineup. For one, it's obviously unfair. But even more importantly, it creates bad incentivizes for all sorts of sketchy behavior like the floor setting up pros they have pieces of up against whales and asking for bribes to get in on the jig. Based on what I saw and private conversations with players at Bay 101, I believe that's exactly what's happening.

3. "First come, first serve" is a very fair alternative that's been standard in California for decades but I think there's other reasonable systems, such as a list where anyone who is locked out of a game on one day gets priority on the next. This would make sure that the game isn't always monopolized by people who can show up the earliest but is still a fair and transparent system

4. There's no question that I was dealt into a game at a public game and pulled off the table for a player that wasn't even at the casino. I called in to the casino to reserve this seat and arrived to see it empty as the game was being dealt. So if someone else gets the seat ahead of me, by what criteria? The people disagreeing with me say the casino arbitrarily gets to play who plays their public game and who doesn't. I think this violates California State law

4. Based on my investigation into the legality of this behavior so far, the truth is we just don't know and further investigation into the legality is ongoing by the California Justice Department. I think the investigation would benefit from more players sharing their experience so I recommend giving them a phone call.

5. As far as what I would consider a fair outcome, I think it would be totally reasonable if you walk into Bay 101 and are told there's, 2/3/5, 5/5/10, and 5/5/10 private game. If the whales think the private game is more fun, then they can choose to play in it. That's a very different situation then people walking into what looks like a public game but is actually treated as a private game when insiders want to shape the lineup as part of a shady operation

6. The floor man absolutely deserves to lose his job. This isn't mcdonalds. Theres' extensive training to work a card room , its an extensively regulated industry, I'd say the most important aspect of a good cardroom floor man is that he makes sure the card room complies with the law. We can all say it's a joke but an airline pilot shouldn't be joking about bombs and a floor man shouldn't be joking about asking for bribes to play in his games. That's a massive liability especially for a casino as big as Bay 101.

7. All the people who want to name call me, say I'm anti-social, imply that me calling out an illegal racket is proof I'm a miserable person with no friends, calling me a GTO robot, giving me tips on being a live pro when I'm not trying to be one, giving me tips on how to hustle into private games when I have no interest in doing so, insulting software engineers (?) , are just showing that I've hit a nerve on something because you're bringing up irrelevant personal attacks trying to defend an illegal practice that needs to end

Thanks for confirming again with yet another lengthy repetitive post how miserable it must be to play with you at the table.

“Floor man needs to lose his job” - because of an obvious joke, after you tried to linejump on him by the way.

Reality is your phone calls to “Justice Dept” were met with an appropriate amount of placating listening time in order for you to fully vent steam, and not, God forbid, come back and spray the whole table. I’d bet they were laughing their asses off when you finally finished crying to them and hung up.

Ffs you still haven’t answered relevant questions

Hope you get a lifetime ban from that place lol

I think we know what the answer is, seat was probably filled within 10-15 minutes by someone ahead of him on list. He’d be screaming to high heavens here if seat had remained open an hour+.

Yeah that’s my read too

Floor did communicate it badly then

Yup