Is the "get your buy-in back when you bag" thing true? Right there on the spot?

Yes, but it isn't a refund of your buy-in. It's a payout that comes out of the prize pool, and is counted in the 250K guarantee. In essence, it's a min cash, but you get it again every time you bag a Day One.

Edit: It also means that the min cash on Day Two will probably be about one buy-in ($150) instead of two, since you have already gotten at least one buy-in in payouts.

Well yeah I realize that it comes out of the prize pool, there would be virtually no way they could reach the guarantee if not hahahaha. But yeah, I love the idea. Gives those players a chance to fire more bullets (if they were previously unable to like I would be after a few bullets). Already rounded up some sponsors, so now I just have to save a few buyins worth and I'll have enough ammo. Glad I learned about this when I did...

It's official:
Also looks like they'll be giving away 500+ seat vouchers in freeroll and jackpot prizes over the next two months.

That should be the first time in 2+2 history

when is this tourney?

It's the Main Event of the Derby Lane Fall Pokerfest running Nov 1-16.

AUPT Schedule with $150 buy in / $250,000 guarantee details

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mxkgbao9vb...-2014.pdf?dl=0

No PLO and no GTD on the high roller

PLO always gets a good turnout. Hopefully the "tba" slot will be filled with PLO

thanks guys!!!

Thanks for the link. Some good stuff, some bad.

No PLO is definitely bad. Even if it gets put in to the TBA spot I won't play as it would be the night before the Main Event Day 2.

Total number of Day Ones is 18. Seems a bit excessive although I can understand that they want to maximize entry opportunities to make their guarantee.

Bags moving forward are capped at 5 and everyone advancing to Day Two will be in the money, as expected.

Players advancing to Day Two do receive $150 at the end of Day One, but it seems like it either is just one time, not every time you make it through Day One, or the wording is not right:
Since you can advance 5 Day One bags, that would be $750 in payouts if it were $150 every time you got through a Day one, and that amount is no doubt more than a min cash. So it doesn't fit as "of their winnings in advance." I'll have to check with manager on this one, as that could be a major change in strategy if it's just once.

They also have a $20 prize-pool add-on for 5K chips (for a total of 15K starting chips). To me, that just means it's a $170 buy-in instead of $150, and therefore a Day One advance does not get the full buy-in back.

The schedule also says that all Day Ones will play down to 12%. Some of the Day Ones start at 4pm on weekdays and the room closes at 3am, so I'm not sure how they can make that statement. In the past, Day Ones have always been to 12% or 12 hours, whichever comes first. And even the weekday Day Ones ran 12 hours or close to it. Another point about which I'll ask.

This is an example of a tournament that is bad for grinders that you should not play. It's not really possible to know the EV of playing more flights. Hence, i'd just punt this tourney and find something else.

PSA=Prize Pool Pre Start Add on $20 for 5K

dafuq is that?

Every day one has an optional $20 prize-pool add-on which you have to buy before the start of the tournament. The entire add-on goes into the prize pool. It gives you an extra 5K chips, for a total starting stack of 15K.

It's a way for the room to boost the prize pool to increase the chances of hitting their big guarantee. Seems like they ought to just make it a $170 buy-in instead, but somehow this works at Derby. They can say it's a $150 tournament for a $250K guarantee. And amazingly enough, some of the players don't buy the add-on (especially those that win a seat voucher via high-hand jackpot or freeroll prize).

OTOH, that's what makes it a good tournament for grinders: it's designed to attract rec players more than grinders. And as a grinder, you'll likely have the bullets to play more Day Ones than most, giving you a better chance to hit Day 2 as a chip leader.

I run the rough numbers like this:
Average number of entries per Day One: 100
Total prize pool: 250K
Day 2 prize pool (taking out $150 per Day One advance): $217,600
Cost to play 13 Day Ones & bag 5 times: $1460

So, you are paying $1,460 to start Day Two in the money (albeit for min cash less than your total buy-in) for a $217K prize pool with a big stack.

The down side is that the Day Two field size will be a lot larger than 12% of the starting field, since a lot of players will fire more than one bullet to make it to Day Two. That makes it harder to move up the money ladder significantly, somewhat nullifying the advantage of a big Day Two starting stack.

BTW, I picked 13 Day Ones since that is the available number if you play just one when there are two of them on one day. If you plan to play the second one when you bust early in the first, you can boost your number of Day Ones and number of times you bag. Re-figuring for 16 Day Ones & bagging 6 times, your cost to play is $1820 with a bigger Day Two starting stack (i.e., dropping your worst stack).

This also points out why I think advancing 5 bags instead of 4 bags works against increasing the total # of entries. With 5 bags advancing, very few players will reach the point where it is an incentive to play more Day Ones in order to drop their worst stacks, as it takes too many Day Ones to hit 5 bags in the first place. I think with 5 bags advancing rather than 4, less players will try for the full # of advancing bags and less will try for dropping their worst one(s).

There has to be a balance between the number of Day Ones available and the number of bags advancing. And you can't just increase the number of Day Ones as that spreads the field too thin.

The series schedule is now up on the Derby site:
http://www.derbylanepoker.com/tourna...ttle/2014.aspx

I have reconfirmed that players get $150 in payout money each time they bag a Day One.

OVERTHINKING IT

It says it's a $125 + 20 (entry fee) + 5 (dealer tip) though?

IMHO they should just be paying out the $125 at the end of each day one, keeping the $20 add-ons for the prizepool. I'm way too intoxicated to want to run some simple numbers right now, and some of it would be guessing, but.....

100 player avg (Xandu's guess) x 18 day ones = 1800 entries total
$225,000

let's just say 60% of players do the $20 add-on (way low prob)
1080 x 20 = $21,600

$246,600 (ok they didn't make the guarantee and there's a tiny overlay)

216 players advance, $27,000 paid out ($125 x 216)

$223,000 remaining prizepool
We're basically making the payments on day one with the add-ons, which is perfect if you ask me.

First ~$45k?
Sick payday for a couple hundo

One more thing... have they (are they ever going to) fix the different colored 5k chips/25k plaques etc? It would be nice if they had one color for each denomination. There will be upwards of 25 million chips in play with the 100 player/day avg guesstimate.

Fwiw I f***ing hate the plaques.

This. That's their whole point. A shot at big money for a small entry.

Added PLO Event and changed some of the verbiage at bottom of the page...https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs55o5yjfv...-2014.pdf?dl=0

[QUOTE=pb4173;44482816]AUPT Schedule with $150 buy in / $250,000 guarantee details

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rs55o5yjfv...-2014.pdf?dl=0

One of the problems of accumulator tournaments is that enough players make the calculation that if they can't/won't play all starting days they're at so much of a disadvantage they might as well not play at all. This actually can reduce the player pool significantly.

In fact it's just a slightly different formula than a next-day re-entry or even a straight freezeout. It's very difficult to qualify more than once for a day 2, and with 3-4 starting days it will be a very small proportion of players who do - definitely under 5% of the field. With 10-12 starting days that percentage may go up, but not as much as people seem to fear, and it's very very unlikely that any chip leader on one starting day will be a chip leader in his/her second starting day and thus gain that huge chip advantage.

Having seen accumulators up close, I think the theoretical concerns may be valid but in practice, the benefits of growing a bigger prize pool outweighs the theoretical concerns, which just don't show up in actual practice very often. That being said - it is very debatable how effective the format really is at building those bigger prize pools.

^Interesting. Derby Lane has taken a big gamble on putting such a large guarantee on the prize pool for this accumulator format, which is untested in this area. As a player, that translates to the possibility of a large overlay, which makes it even more +EV to play as many Day Ones as possible. The chip advantage comes with bagging 5+ times, which will likely create a leading chip stack for Day Two as many players won't fire the bullets to accumulate 5 bags.

Lots of theory. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Re: Derby Lane Poker Room (Tampa, FL)
DERBY LANE / ANTE UP POKER TOUR
FALL POKERFEST
Event 1 The Best Little Tournament in the USA
$150 Buy-in ($125 Prize Pool, $20 Entry Fee, $5 Dealer Tip)
15,000 starting chips w/add on (10k+$20 Pre-start prize pool add on 5k)
All players advancing to Day 2 are in the money & at the completion of each Day 1 will receive
$150 from the prize pool.
Players may play unlimited Day 1 flights and take 5 of their largest bags combined to Day 2
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________________
In addition to 1st place monies, the BLT Main Event Champion will also win
1. a $1650 seat into the AUPT World Championship Main Event,
2. have their Photo on the cover of the December issue of Ante Up Magazine,
3. take the December Ante Up Poker Cruise for 2 leaving from Tampa
4.receive a personalized Tour Champion’s jacket.

Day 1 levels are 30 minutes. Day 2/3 levels are 60 minutes
Breaks will be 10 minutes every 4 levels and the Dinner Break is at the end of level 12 for 30 minutes.
Players may enter and re-enter all Events until the end of the 6th level.
All Accumulator Main Event Day 1's will play down to 12%.
All weekday events will play until 15 minutes prior to close and continue if necessary the following day at 6pm.
$1650 will be withheld from the Main Event prize pool for the AUPT World Championship Main Event Seat.

Anyone playing the $150 50k guaranteed accumulator at Derby Lane (St Pete FL) starting today thru Sunday? Looks like seven total flights, buy-in back if you complete the flight, and you can bring your top 3 bags to day 2.

http://www.pokeratlas.com/poker-tour...d=123212-10108

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