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Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made

02-28-2013 , 06:54 AM
Just from experience and chatting with other serious players I think that to become tired and sick of poker after x years as a pro is definitely the norm, and that you have to be equipped with a special kind of personality to truly feel content about having poker as your job for the next 10+ years.

Personally I have gone from being a fulltime engineer to being a fulltime poker player and now after ~3 years I will go back into being an engineer despite taking a significant cut to my hourly.

For me poker became extremely unrewarding once I reached my limit in terms of stakes that i felt i could steadily beat over time. Despite its complexity and the possibility to fine tune your strategy till infinity it still feels a lot like just another card game.

The potential also to really make life-changing money is definitely limited as well for online poker, although this ofc depends where u live. But compared to most fields/professions the potential earn for a world class player is pretty slim from the actual game itself.
So IMO it is definitely a fair argument these days that the talent needed to crush mid/high stakes poker is so extreme that the +EV decision over time (strictly money wise) for many of these guys could actually be to quit poker completely and pursue other business ideas instead.

And then add happiness as a factor and i think it will be a no-brainer some time down the road for most of us.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
02-28-2013 , 07:30 AM
Y henh "most of us" is the right way to put it.
I think you gotta have that true passion&love to the game,
if not it can't last forever.
Imo many people who play for living, can't balance other things in life that well.
If they could, i think that happiness factor would be easier.. and the career could last longer.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-01-2013 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan74
In, sum I think that absolutism of the pro and con arguments is ridiculous. Playing poker for a living can't be all fun and games. There are downsides. So is having a job. So is having a business. Obviously, there are some people who enjoy their jobs and admittedly, I think you can find some jobs that provide more meaning and a sense of connection to the world than poker. That's not to be discounted either.

Besides this, what is this thread trying to accomplish. To convince all poker professionals to quit, even a good many don't feel that way? Is it to convince some people who have a job, that only poker is a fulfilling career? Both notions are nonsense.
Wait, you're saying that this discussion is ultimately irrelevant and won't do anything to change the thought processes of the people involved in it, whose minds are already made up?

You just blew up the concept of an Internet message board.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-01-2013 , 11:24 PM
I like how people teaches life's values and how money is not important, when they have half a mill sitting in the bank.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-01-2013 , 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HojoAkira
A lot of people in this thread mostly the pro poker mr. I don't want a real job because I have issues with authority blah blah blah blah macho manly degenerate crap. Those dudes are idiots and probably be homeless soon with their attitude trying to play a damn card game for a living.

The whole objective of poker as a profession is to make money and lots of it and poker is one of the few things on Earth you can make money without being qualified at all.

It doesn't matter what you do to make money, it's how much you make and what benefits come along with it.

You would have to be stupid as hell to turn down a job with a consistent 250k + a year plus benefits to play a damn card game that has high variance full time as an only source of income at the stakes that allow you the equivalent amount of money as 250k if you are interested in making money.

Only way I could play poker professionally as my only source income that I work and not some investments or residual income is if I am playing at Phil Ivey, Durr, Negreanu level.
I gotta be on damn TV.

There's a difference between playing a card game and working poker.

Just like there's a difference between playing a pickup basketball game, street basketball tours and playing in the NBA.

I am not a good player or what not and I am just starting out but poker will never ever ever be a full time only source of income unless I am making over 250k.

Poker is like investing in the financial market to me...you gotta diversify...I figure if I can make 15 dollars an hour playing for 25 hours a week, I am doing something I would never thought I would be doing and I wouldn't mind getting a full time job to supplement my poker income.

And I am getting a BA in Finance and planning on getting an MBA and a Masters in Finance and poker hopefully can help pay it off.
lol what a tool you are. just because you like working for the man, doesnt mean its degenerate to aspire something higher and more worthy. its a matter of confidence in ones own abilities. and im not talking about poker players specifically here, but that statement is beyond ******ed.

and guess what, young people cant make 100-200k (tax free in a lot of cases) or more from a regular job. especially not one that offers you that much freedom. so while you might value stability higher than that, it is certainly a matter of opinion. if you are intelligent and confident in that, you can adjust when online poker dries up or even before that. also you dont have to spend 3-5years+ in uni and then another couple of years working your way up a company. you can make a lot of money during that time and invest it, which you actually have the time to learn and become good at.

i much prefer to spend my early twenties travelling the world, not being broke etc. instead of learning a lot of BS to get a degree, to prove to some company (that will underpay you for a looong time) that i am worthy doing some boring job, possibly with annoying people.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-02-2013 , 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan74
Education is valuable for its own sake mmmkay? Get your degree.

Also you never know what kind of problems you ll run into. A diploma is the first step towards a fall back plan mmmmkay?
lol i have a lot friends in top unis and studied myself for a year. there is not much valuable stuff compared to the time spent to pump it into your brain so you get good grades. maybe it is if youre a little slow or have weird definitions of valuable. and you can get the valuable stuff without studying for a degree and constantly having to prove how great you are (exams) when you in fact know it already. but theres also people out there who get their self worth at least partly from their degree. i think theyre sheep.

what if i told you that i have other back up plans/options? your view of the world/valuation of education is subjective, mmmmkay? what if i told you my back up plan pays a lot more dividends a lot earlier than some diploma + gives me a way better perspective for my future and the lifestyle i enjoy.

and lol @ "get your degree" like im a muppet who will listen to some joke post on the internet. beyond hilarious. if you enjoy working a regular job, being tied to your location, getting underpayed for what you do, waking up at 7 AM, going on vacation once or twice a year etc, thats fine with me. i probably never will and think i can use my time more productively. most ppl go down the regular road because of a lack of intelligence and/or confidence. because they dont question societies standards. all the smartest guys i know aspire something else for themselves (not poker but the mindset is clearly oriented towards freedom and doing something on your own).

a friend of mine is crushing it in a elite economics university in german and just finished his internship which went extremely well. hed get 180k eur a year after working there for three years for sure. yet he decided to take a year to start a business venture, pick up trading and other investment opportunities etc. he told me he hated the job he was doing there even though he could come in late, work on his own for the most part etc. and this is a company with extremely high rated working conditions. they have very high standards (education, skills, experience etc.) for their employees and yet my buddy had to work with annoying morons half the time.

Last edited by random btn; 03-02-2013 at 12:46 AM.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-02-2013 , 03:49 AM
grunch: if you've ever been poor playing poker for a living is awesome.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-02-2013 , 01:58 PM
A few years ago, I dropped out of college to play poker full time. I did well for a while but after some time the whole grind became extremely unsatisfying and boring.

Poker is a fun hobby and if you are really good, could be your way of making a living. HOWEVER, I don't think it is wise for it to be anyone's 'career' or 'life's work'.

Poker is inherently selfish and is not fulfilling. It gives absolutely nothing to society and does nothing to make the world a better place. It actually is a drain on society where people who produce nothing end up spending the money that once belonged to people who produced goods and services for others.

As I said I see nothing wrong with poker as a hobby, but unless you are a sociopath, you will eventually find that you need something else in your life to give it meaning. This is the exact reason that Daniel Negreanu is now exploring charitable endeavors and leadership programs.

If you are thinking about dropping out of school to play poker online for a living because you think it is easier than school, you have a surprise coming to you. Sitting on the computer playing focused for hours on end, day after day, is not easy once the fun goes out of the game, which it surely will at some point.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-02-2013 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoejoe
A few years ago, I dropped out of college to play poker full time. I did well for a while but after some time the whole grind became extremely unsatisfying and boring.

Poker is a fun hobby and if you are really good, could be your way of making a living. HOWEVER, I don't think it is wise for it to be anyone's 'career' or 'life's work'.

Poker is inherently selfish and is not fulfilling. It gives absolutely nothing to society and does nothing to make the world a better place. It actually is a drain on society where people who produce nothing end up spending the money that once belonged to people who produced goods and services for others.

As I said I see nothing wrong with poker as a hobby, but unless you are a sociopath, you will eventually find that you need something else in your life to give it meaning. This is the exact reason that Daniel Negreanu is now exploring charitable endeavors and leadership programs.

If you are thinking about dropping out of school to play poker online for a living because you think it is easier than school, you have a surprise coming to you. Sitting on the computer playing focused for hours on end, day after day, is not easy once the fun goes out of the game, which it surely will at some point.
This Contributing to society mantra that u people like to harp on is a load of crap. Our socioeconomic system that everyone is so bandwagon to contribute to is quickly destroying the planet and oozes negativity. So I apologize for not seeing your point.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-02-2013 , 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorXP
This Contributing to society mantra that u people like to harp on is a load of crap. Our socioeconomic system that everyone is so bandwagon to contribute to is quickly destroying the planet and oozes negativity. So I apologize for not seeing your point.
totally agree!
I agree that poker is not very fulfilling or rewarding on basically any emotional level, but how it contributes to society has nothing to do with it, not for me anyway.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-17-2013 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Boy Jack
I m a happy lazy person. And i wouldnt want to be able to get up early.
I feel your depression is more a very personnal matter and cannot be generalized so easily....
i like to play poker all day long. I dont like to work all day long.
so why the hell would i quit.
+1

I'm studying really hard, starting to become a profitable player, really looking forward to going pro!
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-17-2013 , 02:38 PM
It's the poker life for me!
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-18-2013 , 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenb0rg

The past 2 years playing poker full a living I have been more depressed than I have in almost any point of my life... And literally nothing is "that bad" with me.

I have a girlfriend, I am still financially comfortable, I live in a nice apartment, have a few good friends and have found a few hobbies to occupy my time....

And I am more depressed than I have ever been.

Am I saying poker does this to everyone? Hell no. But there are many personality types where playing poker for a living is not healthy for them.

When I look around the live casinos at the high stake games, almost everyone over the age of 35 who's been playing for 15+ years is a miserable selfish ****.
Correlation? Definitely.
Causation? Probably.
If you were educated (life educated) you would realize that you could replace "poker" with doctor/lawyer/engineer/salesman/teacher/tinker/tailor/soldier/spy, it doesn't matter, because as you read this, I promise you, there are many, many people in many, many occupations who are depressed and can't figure out why.

Oh, and they also project their own mindset onto their co-workers and interpret them as "miserable and selfish."

I especially know many people in finance who have lots of money, lots of possessions, but also lots of internal sadness and disaffection, and who definitely will describe their co-workers and miserable and selfish.

I also have a sister who teaches high school who battles depression, has seen her marriage fall apart, and would definitely describe her co-workers as miserable and selfish.

Many of you are suffering from massive "the grass is greener on the other side of the hill" disease. This is true of corporate bitches dreaming of playing poker for a living; this is true of struggling* would-be poker pros dreaming of being a corporate bitch.

*it isn't true of successful (real) poker pros, who as a group are about the most honorable and happy people I know. And why wouldn't they be? They don't have to work for a living, instead they go play a fun game for about 20 hours a week.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-18-2013 , 03:04 AM
What is a real poker pro to you? Is it a live or online poker or it doesn't matter?


Also, how in the world are you playing poker for a living when you play just 20 hours a week? I read a previous post of yours that you played live only. Because i can't imagine a live poker player playing only 20 hours a week. Is your live hourly rate like $70/hr or something?
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-18-2013 , 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweeting
What is a real poker pro to you? Is it a live or online poker or it doesn't matter?


Also, how in the world are you playing poker for a living when you play just 20 hours a week? I read a previous post of yours that you played live only. Because i can't imagine a live poker player playing only 20 hours a week. Is your live hourly rate like $70/hr or something?
cos he's Jesus.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-18-2013 , 01:28 PM
"Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get" - Dale Carnegie
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoejoe
A few years ago, I dropped out of college to play poker full time. I did well for a while but after some time the whole grind became extremely unsatisfying and boring.

Poker is a fun hobby and if you are really good, could be your way of making a living. HOWEVER, I don't think it is wise for it to be anyone's 'career' or 'life's work'.

Poker is inherently selfish and is not fulfilling. It gives absolutely nothing to society and does nothing to make the world a better place. It actually is a drain on society where people who produce nothing end up spending the money that once belonged to people who produced goods and services for others.

As I said I see nothing wrong with poker as a hobby, but unless you are a sociopath, you will eventually find that you need something else in your life to give it meaning. This is the exact reason that Daniel Negreanu is now exploring charitable endeavors and leadership programs.

If you are thinking about dropping out of school to play poker online for a living because you think it is easier than school, you have a surprise coming to you. Sitting on the computer playing focused for hours on end, day after day, is not easy once the fun goes out of the game, which it surely will at some point.
Cliffs at bottom.

I've had a different experience. I'm 39 and I've been a live pro for six years. After college in '95, I went to graduate school to become a teacher. I thought that making a difference in the lives of students would give meaning to my own life. I taught history for six years, and I resigned from it before I even knew the first thing about poker. I had no idea what I was going to do after I quit, all i knew was, teaching wasn't for me. In fact, the day i resigned still ranks as one of the happiest days of my life.

After a nine month hiatus of traveling and loafing around, I ended up taking a position with the New Jersey State Dept. of Education. It was a cushy job with zero stress, earning me slightly more money than I made teaching. I thought I was in heaven. Then one night, at a friends house, I was introduced to poker, at the ripe old age of 31. I was immediately intrigued, and I began playing small tournaments with friends once or twice a week. After a couple months, a buddy and I drove to Atlantic City, and I sat in a $1-2 game at Borgata. A few hours later, I was sitting on $2000, but the only hand I can remember from that night was when I had top two pair vs the other big stack, and we got it all in on the turn. He apparently had the nut flush and I binked my 4-outer on the river. I wisely cashed out soon after, and the rest is history.

After a year of playing with friends and taking trips to A.C., I came to the realization that I was better than my friends, and poker had become a profitable hobby. When I got fired from my job at the state, I collected unemployment and spent most of my time in A.C., playing 1-2 at the Tropicana. After a streak of several wins, I hopped into a $2/5 game and found that the competition was only slightly tougher than $1/2. Within six months, I was grinding $2/5, earning close to $25/hr my first year.

Fast forward five years, and while I'm still playing mostly $2/5, with some $10/10 on occasion, my winrate has more than doubled, and I've also found success playing live tournaments. I met a girl when I was just learning to play back in '05, and we now have a young son, and we're looking to have a second child. I'm able to spend more time with my son in one day than most fathers spend with their kids in a week. I play about 100 hrs per month, mostly at night after my son goes to bed. I can't think of any job that would allow me to choose my own hours, come and go as I please, and spend this much time with my family.

You say poker is inherently selfish and unfulfilling, but I don't feel that way at all. My life is more fulfilling than ever, and it's because of poker. My son has a dad who's around all afternoon and evening, every day, yet still manages to make a decent living. And more importantly, my son has a dad who's happy, not stressed out from his job like my own father was for my entire childhood, or like I was when I was a teacher.

Am I a drain on society, as Shoejoe claims? I don't see it that way. People with jobs spend money on their hobbies. For some people, poker is their hobby. They enjoy it, even the ones who know they're not likely to win. I'm providing them with an opportunity to compete, have fun, and possibly win some money. And as a former employee of the state of New Jersey, I can honestly say that I feel like I do more for society as a poker player than I ever did while I worked for the government.

Cliff notes: Playing live poker = living the dream.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 02:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Cowboy
Cliffs at bottom.

I've had a different experience. I'm 39 and I've been a live pro for six years. After college in '95, I went to graduate school to become a teacher. I thought that making a difference in the lives of students would give meaning to my own life. I taught history for six years, and I resigned from it before I even knew the first thing about poker. I had no idea what I was going to do after I quit, all i knew was, teaching wasn't for me. In fact, the day i resigned still ranks as one of the happiest days of my life.

After a nine month hiatus of traveling and loafing around, I ended up taking a position with the New Jersey State Dept. of Education. It was a cushy job with zero stress, earning me slightly more money than I made teaching. I thought I was in heaven. Then one night, at a friends house, I was introduced to poker, at the ripe old age of 31. I was immediately intrigued, and I began playing small tournaments with friends once or twice a week. After a couple months, a buddy and I drove to Atlantic City, and I sat in a $1-2 game at Borgata. A few hours later, I was sitting on $2000, but the only hand I can remember from that night was when I had top two pair vs the other big stack, and we got it all in on the turn. He apparently had the nut flush and I binked my 4-outer on the river. I wisely cashed out soon after, and the rest is history.

After a year of playing with friends and taking trips to A.C., I came to the realization that I was better than my friends, and poker had become a profitable hobby. When I got fired from my job at the state, I collected unemployment and spent most of my time in A.C., playing 1-2 at the Tropicana. After a streak of several wins, I hopped into a $2/5 game and found that the competition was only slightly tougher than $1/2. Within six months, I was grinding $2/5, earning close to $25/hr my first year.

Fast forward five years, and while I'm still playing mostly $2/5, with some $10/10 on occasion, my winrate has more than doubled, and I've also found success playing live tournaments. I met a girl when I was just learning to play back in '05, and we now have a young son, and we're looking to have a second child. I'm able to spend more time with my son in one day than most fathers spend with their kids in a week. I play about 100 hrs per month, mostly at night after my son goes to bed. I can't think of any job that would allow me to choose my own hours, come and go as I please, and spend this much time with my family.

You say poker is inherently selfish and unfulfilling, but I don't feel that way at all. My life is more fulfilling than ever, and it's because of poker. My son has a dad who's around all afternoon and evening, every day, yet still manages to make a decent living. And more importantly, my son has a dad who's happy, not stressed out from his job like my own father was for my entire childhood, or like I was when I was a teacher.

Am I a drain on society, as Shoejoe claims? I don't see it that way. People with jobs spend money on their hobbies. For some people, poker is their hobby. They enjoy it, even the ones who know they're not likely to win. I'm providing them with an opportunity to compete, have fun, and possibly win some money. And as a former employee of the state of New Jersey, I can honestly say that I feel like I do more for society as a poker player than I ever did while I worked for the government.

Cliff notes: Playing live poker = living the dream.
NH sir. keep the dream alive.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 03:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight Cowboy
Cliff notes: Playing live poker = living the dream.
Live poker kinda sucks... much rather liked it when I could play live to break up the monotony of online. Oh, well...
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 04:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by random btn
i much prefer to spend my early twenties travelling the world, not being broke etc. instead of learning a lot of BS to get a degree, to prove to some company (that will underpay you for a looong time) that i am worthy doing some boring job, possibly with annoying people.
this is just so true...
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 04:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mai0h123
this is just so true...
Sure, most people in their twenties would prefer to spend their time traveling the world and having some money in their pockets, but the problem is that 95% of them wind up broke in their 30's, with no resume, and then work at Subway for the next 30 years.

I'm glad I didn't make the move until I was in my early 30's - I believe it gave me maturity with money, which I don't think I would have had in my early 20's when I started playing the game.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 04:57 AM
to whoever who wants to quit playing poker for a living.. think hard about it. i quit 6 months ago cos a huge downswing. now that i need to go back to playing, i cant cos i just realized the "drive" and the "passion" is gone. but if i didnt quit in the first place i'd still be in the "groove".

my savings is running out and i am unsure whether to get back playing or not.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 05:16 AM
Tokeweed, get back into playing! As the Jewish lawyer in Rounders said "we don't choose our destiny; it's our destiny that chooses us" :-)
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 06:50 AM
nope. dont feel like it. my destiny is choosing me right now... slacking.
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote
03-22-2013 , 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokeweed
nope. dont feel like it. my destiny is choosing me right now... slacking.
LOL :-D
Quitting poker for a living was the best decision I ever made Quote

      
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