The rules of the $25k fantasy draft say it includes all "open events".

25kfantasy.com

There is a scoring system based on what position team members finish and the field size and buyin of each event cashed.

A $50k unlimited reentry nolimit bracelet event was just added to the schedule.

The dispute involves whether or not this event should be included in the draft.

One camp says the rules specify that the draft includes all open events and that since the added event is open to all fantasy team members it should be included.

The other argument is that players were drafted based on the posted schedule and that if the schedule included an additional $50k event some teams may have drafted different players.

They agreed to have a 3 person arbitation panel hear both sides and make a decision.

This added event being included or not most likely will affect which team ends up winning hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Should points earned in this added $50k event count for each teams score?

Is there a stipulation in the rules in case an event gets removed from the schedule? Let’s say the Rio has a roofing issue and they have to scratch a $1500 no limit hold’em bracelet event three days before it was supposed to start.

If there isn’t a rule regarding that, you either have to include the $50k event or be prepared that participants are going to try to void the whole fantasy league in case something like that happens.

In any case, rules for the league should address modifications to the schedule. MLB fantasy league rules state what happens if a team has only 161 (or less) regular season games or 163.

Include unless any of the people involved had inside information that this event would be added.

In the case of inside information it's a trickier question. Probably there should be a rule that WSOP insiders can't participate at all. If there wasn't such a rule, I'd say that participants accepted the risk of playing against insiders. I could imagine some weird fact situation that would mitigate toward excluding, but default to include.

Anyway, how much could adding one event, even a high buy-in, affect things? It might change who ends up winning, but it couldn't possibly have that great an impact on any one player's EV.

Some teams are mixed game player heavy while others are high roller nolimit player heavy.

Also there are side bets of upwards of $1m between teams regarding place finished and number of points earned per team.

This added event will have a huge impact.

Is this literally the first time in the last decade that the schedule has been revised after start? If so it's somewhat tricky. If it isn't so and events have been added before then it's a no-brainer yes-it-should-count to me

The rules say open events count.

It is an open event.

This doesn't seem complicated to me. It counts.

Aside from the obvious rule an assumption can be made that the draft was done based on the presented schedule at that time. With the lack of highrollers this means one can draft based on other variables (e.g. high volume "low rollers"). Now that a new high roller is introduced this will impact those drafts.

Given that, its one 50k. so in this specific case its not that impactfull. Should be cleared up for the next draft though. Simply add to the rule; a. current schedule is in effect, any changes or added events to that schedule are excluded. or b. all open events count, also changed and added events.

Additional "off the books" side bets should not be considered imo. These are established on their own terms and should be handled as such between the bettors.
Its in no way possible to cater to all side bets going on apart from the draft itself.

Personally, I would say no.

The rules stated, open events on the schedule. This event was not on the schedule at the time of the draft.
Saying that the rule doesn’t specify that any events added to the schedule after draft are not included is a bit of a red herring IMO. It doesn’t state that because it hasn’t happened before and wasn’t seen as an issue that would occur.

What happens in a couple of weeks and a bunch of HS pros are out of the main event and group together and ask Jack to let them play another 50k, or a 100k? Does that one get to count too?

Just say no to rule out any ambiguity or even nefarious POY point grab attempts.

Notice how it’s a 50k added and not a $600 or $1500 event.

If nothing is specified and you decide that an additional event doesn’t count, one water main break or phoned in bomb thread that removes a small event from the schedule would void the whole fantasy league.

No it wouldn’t. Those events were on the schedule at the time of the draft.
The rules say ‘events on the schedule’, not whether they are played or not. Having one of your draftees intend to play an event but getting sick for a week doesn’t void the league.

Agreed, if there’s a “at the time of the draft” stipulation. But apparently there isn’t. That canceled event isn’t on the schedule anymore the second the WSOP decides to remove it from their official schedule. No idea if they would do that or leave it on there with a *canceled* asterisk but that decision could have a huge impact if wording in the rules is unclear.

This sounds right to me. Future drafts and rules can account for this type of schedule change as a possibility.

My 2 cents.

"All open events" is different from "All open events on the schedule".

If the former, then new open events count. If the latter, then only open events on the schedule at the time of the draft count.

It should not count because people would've made different picks if they had known there was going to be another high roller NLHE event. Seems pretty simple to me.

I'm with the last two posters. Clear-cut imo.

I agree with this.

What rules are you referring to here?

The rules appear to be posted here: http://www.25kfantasy.com/rules/

They make no mention of "on the schedule" that I see. Indeed, they appear to me to say:
The word "schedule" doesn't even appear on that rules page.

Common sense is rare these days. Congrats bro!

All in my opinion. And I haven't read any of the Tweets from players so apologies if I am duplicating anything unknowingly.

a) The initial rules didn't cover this kind of eventuality, and should do in future, as others ITT have stated.

b) Most, not all, poker players' standpoint will be based on how it affects their bottom line, not on what is an equitable ruling for all. E.g. If the extra event added was a $50K unlimited re-entry 8 Game I'm pretty certain that most individuals involved would be asserting the complete opposite view to their current one.

c) If the arbitration panel only have 2 options to rule, i.e. that the extra tournament either counts or doesn't count then neither ruling will be completely fair.

If I was arbitrating and only had the 2 options then I would fall on the side of the extra event not counting, purely because of the size of the buy in (+ re-entries) being very significant and because of the profile of many teams (and side bets) being geared either towards NLHE players or Mixed Game players.

However, a simple ruling that the event doesn't count is not entirely fair on those Fantasy teams (and associated side bets) who are slanted towards NLHE specialist players, for a number of reasons.

* Playing the extra comp will/might use up some/much of the player's bank roll, time, energy, focus, even perhaps run good.

* Some players might be backed, could be in make up to be backers, or might be self funded but desperately want to play the event either because it offers them a big playing edge or because it is a way out of a hole created by not cashing well in other comps they have played.

There is therefore only 1 completely equitable for all method of dealing with the whole situation. It is a little bit complex, but mathematically, logically and ethically sound in my opinion.

This is the solution:

The $50K NLHE RE counts towards Fantasy League standings and towards all side bets.

However, a calculation needs to be made of how many POY points and how much money will be cashed for, and how much net profit would be made by the average strength of performance among the NLHE specialist players only that are within the Fantasy League based on firing 2 bullets (2 bullets being a broad average of how many bullets players might fire)

When the calculation has been made, ALL players (not just NLHE specialists), so Mixed Game Players, NLHE specialists and any one in between, will automatically have the theoretical number of POY points added to their score, the theoretical amount of money cashed for, and the theoretical amount of net profit added to their totals for the series. I am assuming a net profit given that a 2 bullet strategy isn't always 2 bullets fired and the NLHE specialists on whom the theoretical calculations are based are +EV in the tournament.

Then if anyone, NLHE specialist player or otherwise wants to actually enter the tournament, they can do so, with their actual POY points earned, actual amount cashed for, and actual net win/loss replacing the ones that are assigned to all players.

The only proviso would be that if any player has fired 3 bullets then that is the point at which the settlement of POY points and $ loss is made, and any 4th or 5th bullet etc played would be outside of this and not count for the purposes of the Fantasy League or side bets.

I think all of the above, or a variation of it based on the same principals, is the fairest way of settling things because it assigns all players the same theoretical result in the added comp, regardless of their ability, but still allows any player to enter the comp and to try to outperform the average theoretical result of their fellow NLHE specialists.

Can there be a 3rd Poll choice of "Don't give a ****"?

How would “posted schedule at time of draft is final list of events included” not be the simple answer here?

To keep integrity simple and most fair. Why are u guys writing paragraphs and getting arbitrators? How is this not simple? How was this not specified in a 25k league?

Because the rules don't say that. The rules say "* Points will only be awarded in open events, no Seniors, Ladies, or Employee events will count."

Yup

voted that it counts

In Daniel’s vlog, he made it out to be that the ‘on the schedule’ bit was in the rules.

I haven't seen Daniel's vlog. All I looked at was the thread above, and the rules, which are listed here: http://www.25kfantasy.com/rules/