That company is 180Vita. They also own pokertube, poker dot org, and a few other companies. They've been expanding in recent years.

Who would pressure them exactly? WPN are possibly the only people who could, and it appears that there is no longer a business relationship between the two of companies. In fact, I believe that the dissolution of the business relationship between 180Vita (HSDB) and WPN is the impetus for this "hit piece" being published in the first place.

I did too. They banned me from their FB page lol.

HSDB used to have links to WPN. As recently as last month. The OP had actually posted the link to HSDB and a link to an article written by my site rebutting the HSDB article. When mods closed the thread, they removed both inks unfortunately. In our rebuttal, we posted the link below to the waybackmachine showing HSDB last month referencing WPN as their top rated room:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170706...hstakesdb.com/


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Kahn

the ignition mention at the bottom is in pretty bad taste but the claims in the article still need to be addressed. hsbd while sometimes controversial is usually pretty accurate

Just read Kahn's write-up on the article on his site, and he had many of the same issues I brought up with it, but I quite enjoyed his additional find:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170706...hstakesdb.com/

That would be an archived HSDB page from July 6, with ACR topping their "Poker Deals - Top Picks" list at the upper right.

This is a privately-owned forum, there is no free speech.

That said, I'd probably have left the link in because I think it just makes HSDB look terrible, but I get why it was removed with it being such a terrible article - some would argue that HSDB shouldn't be given the free traffic.

People call out rooms for shady behaviour on our site all the time, we have no problem with that. Nothing, and I mean nothing, in that article makes think WPN is shady.

Why would they need to address a bunch of claims which are backed up by nothing? Did you read the article, and my post pointing out all the blatant issues with it?

I recently came back to playing poker after an extended departure (~4 years) and while on HSDB saw the article on ACR/WPN and decided not to deposit. I did however end up making a deposit on Ignition.

I avoided ACR/WPN until i came across this thread and realized i had been mislead and also felt pretty lazy for not coming to the forums here at 2+2. I have always known that whatever is going on in the poker community, this is the first and most reliable source for the truth.

Did you sign up and deposit through HSDB?


Also, I found another screenshot, from April of 2016, where guess what is at the top of the screen in the right hand corner, where they offer their top deals? America's Cardroom and Black Chip Poker. https://gyazo.com/23e491a67298a9e7e2d6ed67d18efe4a

There's no doubt in my mind there was a falling out between 180Vita and WPN and that's what lead to all of this.

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Kahn

WPN_Rep posted a ton in the official ACR thread on the HSDB forum, until the 5th July 2017, as well as on other parts of the forum. The official ACR thread is now locked. The account last visited the HSDB forums on the 28th July 2017

I really don't understand the hate. They didn't scam me and my withdrawals always came, but considering they use Bitcoin, they are painfully slow in my experience. Definitely some cause for concern there.

this is exactly why i wanted to make the thread and additionally exactly why the thread needed to made on 2 + 2

No, I have had a rakebrain account for many years and went through them. I was going to deposit at any/all networks that had decent traffic anyway. I just think it was important to mention that if it affected my decision at all it would very much detour a casual player away from ACR/WPN.

Thank you for taking the time to do so, and also thanks to Bobo Fett for his detailed reply in Post #6. Both are appreciated given how the HSDB article uses player feedback on TwoPlusTwo in such a misleading way.

FTR I have no affiliation with ACR/BCP or Ignition... just believe that if community-minded individuals are going to take the time to post their legitimate thoughts on poker sites/services, that the feedback should be accurately relayed when it's cited, rather than disingenuously dragged into an unrelated narrative.

ACR has been the best American option for at least the past two years. Here's Why:

1. They interact in the forums and actually utilize customer feedback
2. Their CEO has podcasts and doesn't hide his face.
3. Consistent payouts since I've started
4. They allow the most countries to play instead of limiting to a few.
5. Live tourney satties
6. Synchronized breaks. I've been pissing in bottles every Sunday for the last 2 years thanks to Ignition.
7. Their rakeback is on par with pokerstars before amaya's changes. Might be the best rakeback in the world?



They do need some improvements tho:

1. Their new double or nothing option is insulting
2. Avatars are a joke
3. Software has improved but still feels like something from the 90's
4. Very vulnerable to DDOS attacks

I don't think your money is 100% safe on any American site but I am happy to take the risk. The poker sites started introducing bitcoin when the price was in the low 3 figures. They are bitcoin rich and have no incentive to take our money and run. Keep up the good work WPN.

Once again, let me dispel this myth. The offshore poker sites that serve US players are not holding huge bitcoin reserves and handling crypto transactions in house. Just like all other methods of deposit and withdrawal, they rely on 3rd party processors to handle these tasks. Legal separation is important.

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Kahn

LOL WTF does does "they are bitcoin rich" even mean?

they are rich

What about the new advert for Betking?

HSDB is basically just repeating the info on the Betking site. When I searched this site for any info on Betking, I only found one thread.

The betking website is lacking any contact info. Where are they located?

Are they legit?

I believe what that poster was thinking was that these sites have been accepting bitcoin since it was 1/10th of the current price. The poster believes that the sites are holding bitcoin deposits in bitcoin (instead of instantly converting it to fiat like they actually do). As such, that poster believes that these sites have accumulated large quantities of bitcoin at lower prices and thus have many many bitcoins in reserve since the price appreciation has made their fiat value rise so dramatically that they haven't had to dole out nearly as many btc in withdrawals as they've taken in in deposits.

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Kahn

The person that HSDB cited as having payout difficulties, MarcusMPG, responded after my website reached out to him. Here's what he had to say:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=4145


How hard would it have been for 180Vita / HSDB to reach out to him as we did?

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Kahn

Not as hard as it would have been to then write a story with their main piece of "evidence" discredited.

I don't know that we'll ever know the true story, but this looks a hell of a lot like a business relationship falling through and one of the affected parties lashing out at the other like an angry ex-girlfriend.

--
Kahn

Yeah they said act sucks when it's hstd that sucks.

HSDB looks like a ***** here, the most complaints I see in the WPN is about mucked cards, bots and hard games. Cashouts seem to be on point.

i think its a really bad look for 2+2 to have Mods immediately censoring and steering a thread that raises questions about a US facing site, post black Friday.

just because WPN isn't pulling a Lock Poker, doesn't mean we shouldn't ask questions, and look into things deeper....regardless if the article had some obvious bitterness, the responses in this thread are even more alarmingly biased.

why does anyone trust a network that is purposely operating without regulation or oversight?? i remember Jen Larson/LockReps being very active in the community too....

Seriously? If you had trouble finding the article, I can send you a link (I probably would have left the link in, but I understand why it was removed). If there's anything even slightly incorrect in what I posted about the article, I'd love to hear it. The issue with the article isn't just "some obvious bitterness", it goes way beyond that. The whole article is based on misleading and incorrect information.

And I understand if you don't want to believe this because you may feel I have a vested interest, but had the site names and information been reversed, I would have posted exactly the same thing. I have no time for articles like that about any site.

Sure, I'd completely agree that one shouldn't blindly trust any poker site. Everyone should be extremely vigilant.

But that's what makes an article like this such a problem. It attempts to send people from one site to another with no actual evidence of it being any better. And worse than that, when people realize what a hack job that article is, they're less inclined to trust future similar articles.

dont take this the wrong way or as an attack on your ethics/character....but IMO, it just gives the feeling of you guys being a mouth piece for WPN.

how do you and notable forum members like Kahn feel about WPNs blatant lack of regulation and oversight? or their shady software additions, like the double your winnings feature?

and meanwhile 2+2, as well as people in positions of authority like yourself, continue to endorse WPN as a fair and safe place...based *solely* on their speedy cashouts?!?!

just feels a little off to me.

The only thing that is off is the facts in the article. No mod ITT looks like any type of mouthpiece or shill for any entity. They only seem to be correctly supporting the view that poker related sites should not be posting erroneous, unclear, click-baity, and otherwise shilly articles in the name of "player safety". How you have so egregiously missed that point, but some how find fault with Bobo Fett's postings as being a "mouth-piece" for WPN is beyond me.