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Old 12-18-2016, 10:53 PM   #26
ClickItBak
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by BulltexasATM View Post
OP, how do you know this?
It was sent to them and they had their read receipts on. -
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:42 AM   #27
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by ClickItBak View Post
Did you win or purchase a package? If so have your travel funds been reimbursed?
Won a package, but don't think I was owed anything more. There are different level of packages and I had one of the lower ones.
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Old 12-19-2016, 04:15 AM   #28
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by charder30 View Post
Won a package, but don't think I was owed anything more. There are different level of packages and I had one of the lower ones.
Most of them had flight and hotel built in. In the previous year they paid travel on their end, but this year I have had a couple players tell me they were told to book your to a certain amount and the travel would be credited back to them.
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:23 AM   #29
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

Still owed 400$ travel credit from the year before last :P
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:36 PM   #30
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

I manage a forum in Madison, WI that sends a large contingent of players to not only the PPC stops at Ho-Chunk Wisconsin Dells, but as well as other stops, and Aruba. I have personally won trips to Aruba each of the last 2 years. Also, I am personal friends with people involved with the tour and also with players owed money.

My travel credits have always been taken care of, not always timely (as in it would be nice to be paid out this money at the tour stop instead of having to wait until October or even Aruba), but they have always been paid and never AFTER Aruba.

In those 2 years, it was always my understanding based on both the laws in Aruba and in the United States, that the PPC would pay up to $10,000 of all players earnings on the spot ($10K being the amount that a person may carry into the US without having to declare anything). I believe that this was done for the entire Final Table this year and would be SHOCKED to hear anything different.

I was contacted recently regarding a delay in payouts to players at this year's final table. Sandy, PPC Commissioner, stated [in an email to a recipient, that it usually took 15-20 business days for money to be cleared by the Aruban Government and that payouts should occur shortly. [I have dates for these emails, but at the moment, I'm not concerned with the exact timeline] If any of you have ever dealt with a foreign government, you'll know that 15-20 business days could easily be an estimate and that time frame could vary from year to year. As of today it has been 25 business days since the PPC would have requested a transfer of funds through government procedures.

My point is this, since Black Friday poker players have EVERY right to be cautious and concerned with payouts. I will be keeping a close eye on this thread, but it is my guess that this is simply a case of bad timing on the part of the Aruban Government and a lack of urgency on the part of the PPC. Furthermore, I would be surprised to hear if anybody at the Final Table hadn't heard from Sandy or Bryan of the PPC within 48 hours of them learning about this thread. Finally, if you have issues regarding travel reimbursements, I would highly suggest you contact the PPC immediately. If you're having troubles contacting them, DM me and I'll do what I can to help.
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:52 PM   #31
my_nameaintearl
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

Do Final tablists know they won't be paid immediately?
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Old 12-19-2016, 01:55 PM   #32
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by Madison Poker View Post
In those 2 years, it was always my understanding based on both the laws in Aruba and in the United States, that the PPC would pay up to $10,000 of all players earnings on the spot ($10K being the amount that a person may carry into the US without having to declare anything).
...
it usually took 15-20 business days for money to be cleared by the Aruban Government and that payouts should occur shortly.
...
If any of you have ever dealt with a foreign government, you'll know that 15-20 business days could easily be an estimate and that time frame could vary from year to year.
Here's a wacky idea; Don't hold a poker tournament in a country where you can't pay the winners immediately upon their win. (If that's really the case.)

This has nothing to do with US laws. If you bring in more than $10k, you have to fill out a form. If you don't want to fill out the form, that's a different story but if you don't want to fill out the form, it seems to me that you might intend to avoid certain other legal obligations.

Quote:
Currency and Monetary Instruments - Amount that can be brought into or leave the U.S.

How much currency / money / monetary instruments can I bring into the U.S.?

There is no limit on the amount of money that can be taken out of or brought into the United States."
(source: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...-into-or-leave)

Aruban laws are similar according to this website.
Quote:
"Currency Export regulations:

Local currency (Aruban Florin-AWG) and foreign currencies: no restrictions. However, amounts exceeding AWG 20,000.- (USD 11,000.- or equivalent) must be declared."
(source: http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/AW-A...ns-details.htm)

If you don't want to pay out your winners because THEY have to fill out a form, that's a bit suspicious. If you can't immediately write a negotiable check, which does not have to be declared, then you're not handling money that doesn't belong to you in a transparent and honorable manner.

I'm not saying anyone is stealing money. All I'm saying is that the explanations so far have been lacking.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:16 PM   #33
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

I think the intention here is to put the control of how and what they want to declare in the hands of the players. I don't believe there is a fiduciary responsibility upon the Tour to do so. That being said, I'm not 100% positive what the fiduciary responsibilities of the tour actually are!! I'm just saying I think that this is what the intent is.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:17 PM   #34
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by my_nameaintearl View Post
Do Final tablists know they won't be paid immediately?
I couldn't tell you off hand if the payment procedures are actually in the fineprint somewhere, but if I get the chance after I get back from Rogue One this afternoon, I'll see if I can find it.
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Old 12-19-2016, 02:21 PM   #35
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

Also, I wasn't implying that it was against the law to bring in more than $10K, I was simply stating that the declaration threshold was $10K and I believe this is where the tour came up with the amount that they would pay in cash on hand and the rest would be wired after the fact. [It may have seemed like I was implying otherwise, but that wasn't my intent]

I'm headed out for a bit (Rogue One), but I'll respond to other posts when I return.
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:46 PM   #36
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

I would doubt very much that anyone has been shown a specific Aruba or US Law that would "Hold the funds for 10-15 business days". Sandy and Bryan have been communicating with some people - and those people have been given nothing specific about what Aruban situation holds the money.

Again, I know Aruba has some odd laws with regard to foreign companies - but I don't think this is one of them. This seems like a way to stall, nothing else.
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:06 AM   #37
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

Madison Poker,
Are you, by chance, Mark Kroon?
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Old 12-20-2016, 01:34 PM   #38
Madison Poker
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by dabox007 View Post
Madison Poker,
Are you, by chance, Mark Kroon?


Nope, but if you know Mark, you probably know me, MH. I operate the Madison Poker Community on FB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:15 PM   #39
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

Omg Phil helmuth posting in NVG!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-20-2016, 02:17 PM   #40
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by dabox007 View Post
Madison Poker,
Are you, by chance, Mark Kroon?
Biggest fish in Poker...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madison Poker View Post
Nope, but if you know Mark, you probably know me, MH. I operate the Madison Poker Community on FB

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Second biggest fish in poker.



But both super nice guys who have been tireless ambassadors for poker in the area.
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:38 PM   #41
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

just wanna say that I posted in this thread about the 400 which is true, but have been paid out very quickly from bryan/sandy for cashes there and theyve also been really nice/chill guys on the surface and would never suspect them to be the type of people to try and screw anyone over, so this thread is pretty surprising to me
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Old 12-20-2016, 07:07 PM   #42
ClickItBak
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by HITTHEPANDA View Post
just wanna say that I posted in this thread about the 400 which is true, but have been paid out very quickly from bryan/sandy for cashes there and theyve also been really nice/chill guys on the surface and would never suspect them to be the type of people to try and screw anyone over, so this thread is pretty surprising to me
I think that the guys who own the company being very likeable is why this ballooned out of control. When this first came to my attention I defended them blindly because I've known and liked them for a while.

They're likeable enough that they've owed you $400 for over a year and you still like them. Doesn't change what is going on unfortunately.
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:04 PM   #43
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by likes View Post
If you can't immediately write a negotiable check, which does not have to be declared, ...
I'm not going to do the research right now, and not trying to derail, but off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that checks in your possession when you travel into/from the US have to be declared the same as cash in the same amount.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:15 PM   #44
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

FossilMan is correct. All negotiable monetary instruments valued at $10,000 or more have to be declared.
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:44 PM   #45
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by Madison Poker View Post
Nope, but if you know Mark, you probably know me, MH. I operate the Madison Poker Community on FB


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OMG PHIL HELLMUTH!!!!! welcome, welcome to our humble forum kind sir!!!
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Old 12-21-2016, 06:44 PM   #46
ClickItBak
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by gregorio View Post
FossilMan is correct. All negotiable monetary instruments valued at $10,000 or more have to be declared.
Is there any reason this should translate into "not paying people over 10k"
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Old 12-21-2016, 07:09 PM   #47
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

1st - I'm not PH, I'm MH, come on, man!

2nd - By 4pm tomorrow, I will either have good news or bad news regarding this entire situation. I'm really hoping for good news because I like these guys, but either way, there is now a timetable set.
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Old 12-21-2016, 07:42 PM   #48
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by Madison Poker View Post
1st - I'm not PH, I'm MH, come on, man!

2nd - By 4pm tomorrow, I will either have good news or bad news regarding this entire situation. I'm really hoping for good news because I like these guys, but either way, there is now a timetable set.
This dude is 1000x more likable than PH.

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Old 12-21-2016, 07:57 PM   #49
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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Originally Posted by ClickItBak View Post


Is there any reason this should translate into "not paying people over 10k"
I don't understand your post.
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Old 12-21-2016, 08:52 PM   #50
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re: PPC Poker Tour ( Bryan Oulton & Sandy Swartzbaugh ) Very Likely a Ponzi Scheme.

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I don't understand your post.
Like is there any way to interpret the law that means PPC should have kept any money over 10k.
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