How will the tournament players get their backers to pay for the membership fee?

Yeah, basically my thought was to connect a few casinos to create a tour with a destination championship (since there seems to be demand for it). The destination could be stateside, though, to keep it protected more - or in a tropical locale with better gaming regulations (if one exists). For example, if Maryland Live, Isle, Foxwoods, etc (all had PPC stops) got together, they could handle their own prize pools and hold all the funds for the championship event.

A noble idea (not unlike my original one which is also pie in the sky), but I think it's going to be tough to get this to happen from the players side.

The casino side has to realize it's horrible for business when this kind of thing happens and decide they won't work with small tours any more (probably will happen at most major rooms involved in this), then decide they still want to serve the segment of the player pool that likes that kind of tour... Then create it.

I think there is an solution out there in the B2B poker services market already, with a track record of some successful events. Individual casinos do not have to re-invent the wheel to serve that market segment

See, Destination.poker

More than that, free-market forces would send players to the unsanctioned tournaments because they would/should be richer with amateur players. It's the AP/UB thing all over again – think how many people continued to play on those sites precisely because they knew many of the top players were staying away.

Chainsaw Poker Tournament Association, Allen Kessler President.

......with Chainsaw Approved Structures.......I would play it !

So would I, but probably because I know 10th through 44th places pay way more than the final table.

A few thoughts:

1) I played the PPC Aruba Qualifier at Playground Poker Club earlier this year. Although I didn't win the package, I seriously thought about going to play the event anyway - I'm pretty sure one of those dodgy PPC guys was there with leaflets trying to get people to go. Thankfully, I decided on Party Poker's Punta Cana event instead. The lesson here is probably to only trust events backed by major sponsors that are unlikely to be scamming you.

2) As far as Playground is concerned, I expect they will cut ties to the PPC immediately, but I guess they cut a cheque for the 2 packages they awarded and sent it to PPC. Not sure of there could / should be any redress for the package winners from Playground...?

3) I've visited Aruba a few times and always play in the Holiday Inn poker room there (cash game with high rake / bad players). Recently friends told me to go play at The Hilton on my next trip, but unless I hear that it is not owned / operated by these scumbags, I'd say a boycott is in order.

The Mid-States Poker Tour structure was actually designed by Allen, hence it being "Chainsaw Approved."

The MSPT also doesn't hold onto any player money as that is protected and facilitated by all of our host casinos. Aside from 3% being withheld from prize pool for dealers (lowest in industry I believe), no hidden fees taken out for marketing, destination packages, or what have you.

Full disclosure, I now serve as Media Director for the tour after spending six years with PokerNews. Took on the challenge because I believed in the tour and respected how they treat players. MSPT seems to have a winning formula, which is evidenced by the massive growth in the last few seasons.

As for PPC, I went to Aruba in 2015 (tagged along with my cousin who had won a package). There didn't seem to be any issues then. Seems to me Bryan and Sandy fooled a lot of people, and them disappearing while deleting their social media furthers their guilt in the public eye.

I agree that it's difficult to make boycotts work, but Sheldon Adelson isn't a good example. The calls for that boycott were based on his politics and lobbying, but he was offering a superior product - the absolutely premiere room in Vegas at that time. It's tough to get people to stop patronizing the company offering the best product and service.

A boycott against a substandard product has a better chance of having an effect. Still tough, of course, but I believe casual players would pass on tournaments if they had any idea that the prize funds weren't secure. A little knowledge would help tremendously.

Good questions to ask Playground in their thread. I played in that first-ever (and last) PPC PT event in Canada and tried to ask questions from the lady in the PPC table but she ignored me and a guy beside her answered (one of the owners?). I remember somebody taking a photo of me and it was Mark Hoke.

Max Zeppetelli won $7,080 + $4,500 Aruba Package. Runner-up Nimer Ltaif won $6,004 + $3,473 Aruba Package, but may have sold the package. The winner is also supposed to have won a trip to the PPC Champion of Champions Tournament at Maryland Live! Casino, a pair of Blue Shark Optics glasses and apparel from Kicker Power/Kicker Problems.

We're already talking about it!!

I don't have much experience with these "mini-tours" but did play in the WPT "Deep Stacks" event at our local casino this year. And the above is exactly how the money worked - WPT handled the promotional material, trophy presentations and interviews, etc. The casino paid a fee to WPT (not sure how much), took in all the buy-ins and made all the payouts.

How is something like this not considered straight up criminal fraud, and why would Police or other authorities not get involved ?

I suppose a Criminal Complaint would 1st need to be filed.

From what I understand the PPC is not running the Hilton poker room at this moment and I would expect them never to return.

So my question is the opinion of where will these two end up after pulling this off? Let's assume, they evade the law and do not end up in jail. Is it possible to remain in the states and try to lead a normal life? Or do they end up somewhere out of the country putting together normal lives?
Possibly back to DisneyWorld with their families?

If no law enforcement agency has been engaged by any of the victims to investigate what appears to be fraud, then yeah they pretty much get away with it and spend all the players money on lobster.

I would live my life in fear if I screwed people out of hundreds of thousands of dollars...does not sound like a fun life to live to be honest.

A question like this perhaps overestimates the reach of the poker community, which is very, very small in the grand scheme of things.

I am not trying to be an apologist for these two; they have apparently done wrong and deserve no sympathy from anyone, IMHO. That said, I find it much easier to believe that this is an instance of terrible money and business management coupled with overly optimistic projections for the future of their venture. To put it another way, I doubt that they woke up one morning and said, let's screw a bunch of poker players out of their prize money.

What seems far more likely is that they had expenses (including their own living expenses) that outstripped net income from the tour, spent tons of time on it (thereby foregoing other potential income) and used prize pool funds that they believed would be replenished by future entries and income (or perhaps investors in the venture if it became more attractive). An ethical person would not do what they seem to have done. An ethical person would have been honest to themselves and folded up or sold the tour if it wasn't making enough money to pay the bills, but desperation to make things work clouds judgment and ethics in many people. If true, this is a failure on their part and one that should permanently ostracize them from the poker community. (But then again, think of how many people have screwed poker players over the years and somehow reemerged. We either forgive, or have terribly short memories.)

From a legal perspective, it is conceivable that if the above is accurate, they will avoid criminal charges and that all claims would be civil ones, and against the corporation first. While it might be possible to get at the individuals if the corporation is insolvent, they live in Florida, which is a very friendly state for people who declare bankruptcy.

A civil case under these circumstances is daunting. First, sue the corporation. (Not terribly expensive. Probability of success high.) Second, when you find that judgment to be worthless, sue the individuals and get into a protracted fight over personal liability for a corporate debt. (Very expensive. Probability of success moderate at best.) Third, if step two is successful, contest the inevitable bankruptcy claims in a separate court. (Expensive. Probability of success lower.) And as if that isn't enough, if it gets to bankruptcy court, everyone who is owed money will be made a party to the bankruptcy. So even though the players will finance the litigation, the finance company on the family car, American Express, etc. will all be parties to the bankruptcy (and perhaps bloggers and sponsored pros given the piercing of the corporate veil that will have been paid for by the players). In a bankruptcy, the players' claims are not priority claims (they may be the lowest claims) and they will fall in line behind certain other claims, chopping up what's left with credit card companies and unpaid contractors. And if the players' claims are discharged in bankruptcy, it's over. Forever.

Living in fear after all this? First, they will say to anyone who asks, "The courts ruled on this. It's over." Second, who is going to do what to them? This isn't the movies, and I doubt anyone is going to send a leg breaker after someone for $20k, so it is a very, very small universe of potential threats. If it all goes like this, these two will be back in business, either together or separately, on their next project.

The lesson for the poker community is to make sure the money is there up front. That, "We will pay you your winnings, or travel reimbursement, on Tuesday," is never acceptable and situations like this should be made public immediately, preventing others from being scammed. The idea that people just need more time to get their act together never works out; it just leads to more victims and larger sums.

This sentence "used prize pool funds that they believed would be replenished by future entries and income (or perhaps investors in the venture if it became more attractive)."
This is almost the exact definition of a ponzi scheme.

Using new investments(current prize pool) from investors(current tournament players) to pay off/back the previous investsments(last tournament/prize pool) of investors(previous tournament players).

I'm not saying they will be prosecuted etc... but i am pretty sure what they did is criminally illegal. I'm no lawyer(others in the thread are) but that's my 2 cents

Insert picture of Chino Rheem smiling

Far far far more likely is they were playing with everyone else's money and lost. This is a given with ALL of these stories.

Lived probably extravagantly (beyond any rational "expenses") and knew they were screwed a long while back unless they could find some investment suckers to sustain themselves and continue on with their BS.

It's weird how people always give credit to scumbags like there's some sort of rational behavior attached to their scumbag antics.

The friend I was talking about bought his package from Nimer Ltaif. So you are correct he sold it. HE also cashed for 1500 in a side event and got paid. And won one of those now worthless 3500 packages for next year.

Hi likes:

This looks like a good post to me. They'll declare bankruptcy and pennies on the dollar will be paid to the tournament winners.

Also, isn't The Epic Poker League a precedent. There, the freeroll of a $1 million dollar tournament never happened and the players didn't see that money while the company went bankrupt. This looks similar to me.

While many people won't like it, companies do go bankrupt and no one goes to jail, but people who are owed money at best only get very little.

Best wishes,
Mason

I don't see it as similar. (although the result may end up being the same, which is a shame)

Yes, companies go bankrupt, but most of them ran legitimate businesses that failed to turn a profit, when the money ran out, bankrupt did the business become.

As much as I am not a fan of Annie Duke and The Epic Poker League, I am not sure there was pure fraud going on there......just a business model that did not work ??? (Perhaps GPL will wind up in the same boat ?) Stupid business model.....perhaps.....illegal.....I don't think so. - But my memory of EPL could be refreshed......I don't recall all the details of what went down there.

The PPC seems to have tapped into player money, that was NEVER theirs. It's the definition of fraud. Akin to a Real Estate Agent spending your escrow deposit money because they think they will credit it back to you out of their future commission. It's obviously wrong, and illegal for a reason.

It was NEVER their money to touch.

It's fraud.

They are going bankrupt because they spent your money. Not because business expenses exceeded revenues.

I may not be able to articulate it clearly, but there seems an obvious difference to me.

These people need to go to jail for intentionally deceiving & defrauding a community of people from their money.