You make an interesting point. The DOJ must have allowed Stars to operate again solely to repay US players, so why their change of stance when it would have been very simple to say 'Ok US players can withdraw their balances but under no circumstances can they play on either FTP or PS.'

I suppose the conflict is that they would be effectively condoning the transfer of funds from an online gaming site, which would be strictly against UIGEA, but they effectively already did this in April 2011 when they allowed Stars to repay US players then.

Maybe this was one of Stars major plus points in their negotiations, who knows. If they condoned it then, then what they were effectively implying was that they didn't consider Poker to be online gaming and therefore they would allow payment processing, thereby letting Stars off the hook completely. I'm no lawyer but it is all very interesting.

This is almost a perfect post to show what is wrong with this discussion.

This has been part of the PPA strategy since the beginning of the PPA.

Here are two ways in which it has been going on for years:
http://capwiz.com/pokerplayersalliance/home/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...poker-1037109/

So what am I to think when the suggested "better strategy" begins with advocating the same thing the PPA has been doing for years?

Is Greg Raymer not high profile enough for you? He has been out there for years.

It takes the cooperation of the media and person before this can be done. On this FTP repayment issue, we only learned the really bad news a couple of days ago, why do you think the PPA will not go to the media with this story? Do you think you can just call up Raymer and Fox news and get a spot on the nightly news? Of course not, so why rush to judgment?

Actually, the majority of politicians do not care at all about the plight of poker players. But some do. Those some are being reached out to as we speak. Again, it takes more than a couple of days to get something like that rolling, but it only takes 2 minutes on the internet to criticize and organization for not doing something ....

The PPA already is acting as the de facto liason. That is precisely why the DOJ is meeting with us and listening to what we have to say. I haven't heard about them meeting with anyone else.

Really, you think I take the confrontational tone? I can only guess that you have on ignore all the posters who attack me personally or the PPA directly with statements like "the PPA has been a miserable failure from day one" and "Pack it in ppa, you are a useless waste of time and to be honest it seems like you cause more crap than you fix."

The people who discuss things in a civil manner, even when they disagree with me completely, get treated in a civil by me. I have enough posts on 2+2 that this can easily be proven - most find my posts informative and well thought out, or at least that is what they tell me.

Since the meeting went absolutely nothing like, since you have no idea what the meeting went like, since this is merely your made up fantasy designed form the beginning to make the PPA look bad rather than reflect reality, and since responding to this further might make me look "confrontational" lets just recognize fantasy for fantasy.

Being an effective advocate also requires knowing when NOT to be confrontational. Being effective requires being able to take a realistic look at what tools you have and deciding when and where to use them to produce the best possible result.

And, as this thread shows, it also means being able to keep doing that over and over and over until you get somewhere despite being constantly insulted by some of the very people you are trying to benefit.

In my first post after the meeting I stated that the PPA was already working on plans to find a way to speed this process up. If you want to conclude that was a lie, or if you want to conclude that it is a failure because we haven't published those plans and it has already been 2 days, so be it. I will continue working on them though, and you and everyone else are still invited to contribute constructive ideas.

Skallagrim

The PPA never told you to wait another year and pray. Never. Of course it is not the PPA's answer.

But would you actually be interested in a real answer?

What if it takes a few days or a week for people to formulate the best answer, will you still be paying attention then?

Based on this post I have to thing your answer to both questions would be "no."

But in a month or two will you repeat that the PPA's answer was to "just wait and pray"? That one probably gets a "yes."

Skallagrim

After calling her yesterday, I just got a voicemail from Linda Olson in the SDNYC DOJ office

"Administrator will be assigned or appointed before or by Jan 1, 2013, he or she will then set up rules for the administration of the petitions process to get your money back."

Kinda odd how I made one phone call and got a timeline by when they'll get that part of the process started, while the PPA in physically meeting with the DOJ didn't get that information.

-_-

I am heartened that you at least included the word "if" somewhere in that post.

Perhaps it means you can handle the truth:

In a post a while back talking about PPA's efforts to get player's back their funds (which has been a declared #1 priority of the PPA since Black Friday), TheEngineer noted in passing that the PPA mission statement did not include a provision about getting back player funds. .... oh the horror! ... or maybe not. The PPA mission statement was written in 2006, long before any one ever though there would come a day when poker players would have to fight to get their funds. But from the moment it became clear that such a fight was in fact needed, the PPA undertook to be part of that fight in every way it could.

Skallagrim

Perhaps it means that after having to tell the PPA that they had done virtually nothing since August and after hearing how much that was not appreciated they decided to establish a deadline only about 6 weeks from now to complete the first step.

nah, the PPA is useless, I forgot that.

Skallagrim

Omg can't believe what I just read. So tilted and speechless to the see how incompetent and crooked the DOJ is. It makes no sense to me why the DOJ would want to handle the players reimbursement process themselves with the intention of giving back 100% of the funds.

Exactly. Crooked. That's the only reason. They want to make money off of it, and in return they make it look like they r the heroes, calling us victims. When in reality, they could have just let stars pay out for ftp. Rigged bull****. Soi

I posted that because of statements implying that PPA had promised the community this type of representation, when PPA never once said they'd do stuff like this.

I'm glad we are, of course, and I pushed for it.

Anything can happen. We need representation of some sort all the way until our checks clear.

This is meaningless. The DOJ had previously stated that they were going to find an administrator in September, and obviously we have now found that they haven't. It's like another poster said, the DOJ's answer is like Howard's "when we're ready".

I'm very grateful to the PPA for their hard work. They don't have to do anything and still are. I would have probably given up by now if I were in their shoes.

The tweets aren't PPA actions. They are part of the Daily Action Plan, an effort independent of PPA that predates not only my PPA role, but even my PPA membership.

If you don't like tweets, please post alternate suggestions in the action thread. It's very much a community effort, so that would be appreciated.

That statement was in response to posts implying PPA was, in a sense, hired to do this via the membership dues that far too few players contribute to our shared fight.

PPA is proud to have taken a stand for all of us in this matter. As someone with around five figures locked up, I personally can't think of a better path to remission.

Is the PPA not a player advocate group?

very disheartening

i have been following the PPA weekly action plan with regular emails but i don't think the plan has included any email/tweet.... regarding the DOJ FTP money?

can the PPA please redouble their efforts to get the US players their FTP$ ASAP

Definitely. It's our way as players to act together for our rights.

Several have, including yesterday's.

7 points.

1. PPA not perfect.

2. PPA probably more knowledgable and more invested in solving this problem (getting FTP players their balances back) than all but a handful of posters on here.

3. Many posters have a lot of money tied up and would be willing to spend more time and effort working to a resolution of that problem than legislation (for which their few voices will accomplish very little).

4. Improving the speed and efficacy of this process in concert with the DOJ would be the largest and most successful venture of the PPA's relatively short tenure. It would establish the validity of the organization, and would become the cornerstone by which they could attract further involvement to accomplish other goals (legislation).

5. Working together on this problem instead of arguing over a lot of stuff that can't be changed (or isn't even important) would be a better use of our time.

6. ???????

7. PROFIT!

Many here don't want them and insulted PPA for even mentioning it.

He said ftp $... And I want them, FTP's, and thank the PPA for bringing it up to the DOJ.

First off I think the blame on the PPA is way off base and would like to thank them for setting up the meeting and providing some information back to the poker community.

I am still really happy that Howard and company got to keep there money and have access to enough of it so they can play high stake and continue supporting there families. While there customers who paid millions in rake, and need that money to support there own family's sit and wait. I mean I am so happy Howard worked so hard to save his own ass and keep his un earned money. If only Bernie Madoff could have worked as hard.

Did you not read the post that I quoted? I thought said poster made a GREAT list of things to at least adress to the DOJ when you met with them. Of course, I thought they were common sense, but I can see now that not everyone follows them.

I am not going to go back to dig it up. You can find it yourself.

i was talking about FTP money not points

i wouldn't mind getting something for my FTP points but the cash is my priority

good thing we are all poker players with thick skins

Very, very +1 to this.

And seriously, I realized something today, PPA guys actually post here and talk to us, answer our questions, respond to our criticism (even our trolling), they take the time to give us their presence, and that means a lot to me. Putting actual money in my pocket - THAT is something that will make me LOVE the PPA. Right now, I respect, appreciate and value the PPA and their efforts. I would add though, its not simply "other goals" of the PPA which would be boosted, its almost always our goals too, as a community of poker players.


This callback and message needs to be verified. Mods, PPA, Diamondflush, someone needs to verify this somehow. Its beyond my pay grade (0). I'm new here, but this poster doesn't seem like an "eli808" (davidnb) type troll because he's been around for a while, maybe these call-backs have been common place but I haven't heard of them yet.