the firm would have found out what to do, though, right?

Cliffs?

No legitimate auditing firm would take the money of an online poker site operating in the US, so it's a moot point.

Nat,

i believe you.

i think that you probably were very young, didn't work there long and held an entry level position at the big4 firm. do you think that anybody else at that firm would have an idea what to do at cake?

i think that they would charge a **** ton too...partly spent on experts needed.

i think that you told lee jones that cake would be a good fit for him when he left cardrunners, recommended yellowsub to lee jones, and have a relationship with adanthar via bluff and ap debacle. even though you would rather have the teams that are in place now, somebody in charge at a big4 firm could possibly have the idea to hire independent teams of same or similar talents as needed even though it's a small world in the upper echelon of poker management, movers and shakers elite. wotevar

best regards,

gg


ps please dont' tilt at my sig, you are/were the fastest kid on the internet.

pps nat, are you concerned that cake has a 'going concern' problem going forward in a viable manner?

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I fully understand that somebody could have snooped a userid/password off a network when our store wasn't using a secure communications protocol.

What I am saying is the following:

• The huge majority of cases where an account has been fraudulently accessed have completely banal explanations. Things such as the owner giving the password to a trusted "friend" or leaving the password written down somewhere that it can be easily found. Or using the same password for Amazon that he uses for online poker and giving a trusted "friend" the password for use on Amazon. Later the "friend" discovers that the password also works on an online poker account and he goes to town. This has been true as long as I've been in the business (over seven years) and I doubt it will change soon.
• When we reviewed accounts which were fraudulently accessed and which had been to our store, we discovered that there was always one of the above banal explanations (or similar).
• If somebody did indeed fraudulently access an account by sniffing packets off a network, we probably would have heard about that fraudulent access. Not necessarily how it was done, but that the account was played when the owner wasn't on it, the account was drained of funds, some unknown person ordered three dozen cakes from our store, whatever.

We can never be 100% certain that nobody snooped a userid/password from our store communication before it was secured. However, at this point, there is no reason to suspect that such a breach occurred. We have reached an asymptotic point of certainty and going further would be an ill use of our time and resources.

Best regards,
Lee Jones

Cake Poker Cardroom Manager

todd,

the mute point is kinda THE point, huh? the legitimate auditing firm only takes money from legitimate companies?

best wishes,

gtg

fk

I have worked for almost all the Big 8, then Big 6, now Big 4 accounting firms over the past 25 years. The largest project I participated in as a consultant was a $350 million 2-year 200 consultant cluster-fk.

I have also worked for several fortune 100 companies and had to manage consultants from these types of firms. The largest project from that side of the fence had about a $50 million dollar budget.

I have more confidence in the team of independent pros that Cake has lined up, than in any consulting firm currently operating anywhere on the Globe today.

This.

I've dealt with some people from KPMG over the years and while the overall level of incompetency there is probably lower than pretty much anywhere else, it still doesn't mean that their $275/hr "expert" would do his job any better than $30/hr employee.
And they certainly don't have any incentive to finish projects quickly.

Maybe, maybe not. And they would charge a huge markup to hire people like who have been hired.

I was young. I guess I'm still young but, yea, I was 22. My superiors were mostly mindless drones who did whatever the audit software told them to do. They had very little in the way of critical thinking ability. They just wanted to finish the job quickly and get out of there. As long as the audit methodology was followed, they were happy to finish and leave.

As you say, I'm definitely not independent here. I don't have any relationship with adanthar via bluff though, what do you mean by that?

I don't think Cake has a going concern problem but I don't know any more about Cake's money situation than anyone else here. Obviously if some ******edly large amount of money was stolen then there could be a problem but I think anyone knows that. That being said I'm sure they can take a hit of some kind. And given that no superusing has been shown (it's only been shown that it was possible) I don't think it's an immediate issue. The immediate issue is getting hands to the people who are now in charge of looking at them.

nat,

i may have misremembered. i thot that maybe in one of serge's blogs that he said he was writing a security article for bluff. my memory and cognition are off these days though. i'll try to search out cites for corrections...if i can remember to do it! lol

thanks,

gg

Maybe he did but I am not involved in Bluff's day to day whatsoever

Obviously alot of other posters have picked up on my points.

I've worked in consulting. The folks hired here are way more competent than what I would expect from a consulting company, on average. They might have better statistical training but in no way would I expect them to understand the poker nuances.

Edit: I think it's impressive that Cake/Lee hired who they did.

The management consulting firm I worked for would absolutely have done the same. You do not want to hire one of these big firms to do a very esoteric job (which from their perspective, auditing poker accounts for collusion would be), because they are far better at sounding like they're experts than in actually being experts. The money is in selling work, not in doing it well, and they behave accordingly.

+1

Does Cake offer RSA (or similar) security tokens?

I accept what you and Loz are saying but the fact is Cake have done nothing but lie & obfuscate during this whole debacle and their latest attempt at appearing to be an upfront and customer facing company is to have a completely internal revue with any information released totally controlled by themselves. It's horse****. I know it, they know it and I'm sure you know it.

In hopes of giving the "Internet Poker/Independent Investigation into Cake Poker Issue" thread a bump, I posted an activity update over there earlier today. If you enjoy long, rambling posts, you'll like what you see. Warning: Contains investigation content.

So as not to downplay the import of NVG, the post refers readers back here to learn about high dollar auditors. Enjoy.

Thanks for the link.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anager-947302/

Lee Jones resigns.