Well yeah...I mean it's looking pretty bad for Haseeb from where I'm standing. (in b4 some ******ed joke about my vantage point)

Is it that hard to believe that he'd play Girah's accounts on EU networks?

The guy clearly had a fall from grandeur. You have to remember that at some point Haseeb was kind of the "next big thing" in online poker.
Then he started losing and then Isildur came around and did what he does best and probably sent Haseeb on a mental hospital stint for severe depression.

It takes a person with incredible integrity to be stronger than "well, everyone does it, it's not really cheating, plus I can't get action from anyone"
At that point, you have to realize that despite still being a very good player, Haseeb is in a spot where the only people he'll get action from are people who will life-crush him, and personally he never struck me as someone with incredibly strong ethics, especially after the whole Ashman bet, where he basically bet against his close "friend" because he was hoping he would hurt himself running for that long.

That's not the mindset of someone with good values, imo. I mean I don't consider myself an incredible human being, but the idea of betting against one of my best friend on the hope that he'll hurt himself physically so that I'll win makes me want to puke.

so does this mean you vouch for them??

?????

What's the motive? Why would JM want to log onto Girah's account? Because he needs to make money? Huh? The guy is printing money as it is under his own name at the highest stakes.... And besides, if he were going to do this, why pick a high profile persona? Why not just keep it low key? Promoting the guy whose account you are illegally using makes zero sense....

Also, at this point we need to assume everything Girah has said/written is a total lie. Just because he mentions someone's name in chat or email means nothing. Probably just more lies....

If someone has actual proof that Girah wasn't acting alone, then by all means let's see it. Otherwise, it's irresponsible to claim anyone here was helping him.

--PP

Isn't this like the second time he has cheated? Everyone says he's so good but yet he cheats. By his actions he sounds like he's scared money and is not confident in his own game. This guy should have his career crushed by having everyone refuse to give him action, his sponsors should terminate his contract. I personally looked up to this guy and I'm very disappointed in his actions and he should be ashamed as his action ruined his reputation and the integrity of the game in general. I view poker as a sophisticated game that is an intellectual battle and not much different than chess.

If his made so much money in poker, built up a solid group of winning players to keep crushing the games I just dont understand why he would feel the need to do scams for small ammounts incomparison to what he was making?????

If this went on for a week or so and he was overidden in guilt, confessed his sins then I hope its not a witch hunt.......If this is not the case then he deserves whatever comes his way.

Most people on this site have done something they regret and has been morally wrong.
If nobody was ever given a another chance we would all be fu**ed.

His fine should be like a community service.....e.g. cleaning up old people who s**t thereself daily

Assuming it was a scam from the very beginning, we should probably run a whois to figure out who owns the site, who set it up, etc.

Oh wait, nm.

nothing would suprise me...because Ivey has just been confirmed as a bad Ass...

hypothesize =/= claim. Learn how to read

Also, JM is an unlikely candidate for that, I'll admit it, but Haseeb is perfect for it.

heheehehehe.......... remember this ? _: ) ) ))) )) ) ) poker = cheat

Yeah, and this...

pretty big 'if' right there lol

I'm portuguese...
Since the beginning i have always had some doubts about the José story...some pieces of the story are just too suspicious.

- No one in the portuguese government cares about poker, since there aren't no laws about it you can play all you want, and you won't have any troubles even if you're underage, so it's barely impossible that José would have his funds confiscated.

- José said he was waiting for his finals exams in April/May to be over before trying to play again on stars or tilt. But the schools in Portugal only have the finals exams in June.

- He claimed to live in Quinta da Marinha, in Cascais. That's one of the most expensive places to live in our country, the chipier house there is worth around ~1M€...so he had to be rich before even playing poker, right? He also claims to attend one of the top private schools, where you can pay monthly around 800€.

- No one in Portugal dreams about living in Haway...i know alot of people who do surf and they really don't think about living there, even if they were millionares. We have one of the most beautifull cost lines in the world and a lot of places to surf.

I think if this thread is to keep up with the other one , we need to import cliffs from other thread, as the story really evolved over there, and is well ahead of this one. Unfortunatelly, i didn't follow it , but from reading some posts from the other thread its clear that this one is lagging, so perhaps rangey or someone who was there from the start could provide cliffs, especially on hyping part.

Not sure I agree with this. Again, non HS player, don't know any of the players involved in any way, but this isn't outside the realm of possibility to me. We've seen dozens of incidents ranging from minor complaints to thousand dollar staking/prop deals gone bad all done online, and all from people who've never met each other in RL but thought they knew the person from extensive online dealings.

I find it at least plausible that HID and Jungleman felt very comfortable with him and knew nothing of his blatant scummy stuff (leaving aside issues of ghosting or w/e).

Bear in mind that I haven't looked into any of the evidence that would suggest otherwise, I just find the de facto argument of "if you knew him well enough online to contemplate moving into a sick poker house with him, you obviously knew he was scum" to lack face validity.

Get Dog and Jungleman to come on the pokercast tomorrow. Hook it up boys. I'm sure they would like to clear their names.

I am not responsible morally or legally for the actions of someone I vouch for. I am responsible morally that anything which I may post when I am vouching for someone is accurate to the best of my knowledge, and that I don't go around heedlessly posting things I have little idea of the accuracy of. If it isn't accurate then people can question my discretion in vouching for someone, but that's about it.

Here's an example of a post I made recently vouching for someone: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...46&postcount=3

In this post the only claim I make is that I a) did in fact play the person at mid/high stakes, b) in my opinion they played well, c) I bought a coaching package from this person I was satisfied with and d) In my informed opinion I think the person is a strong player and coach.

If somehow (and I have not even the most remote reason to think this, there is nothing to read between the lines here) this person had fabricated his results in order to sell coaching, my only culpability is that I was taken in by him enough to make the above claims b,c and d. Other people on the forums might then justifiably question my reputation as an expert on poker.

The same sort of thing happened with Jose. I was satisfied that he had a sharp take on poker theory and therefore saw no reason to be particularly skeptical of his results. Since I thought he was a large winner I in turn saw no reason why he would engage in cheating as despicable as this for such a comparatively small amount of money. For those of you who watched his video, I think it seems quite credible that Jose has a sharp mind for poker theory and you all might understand my mistake. Others of you might doubt my supposedly expert opinion in the future, which is totally OK with me and justified.

It would be dishonest for me to be recommending Jose in a coaching thread if I expected to get any cut of the profits or had any vested material interest in Jose's coaching success. In the actual case of Jose, all that I attested to was his reality (the proof of which were my repeated chats with him on skype which started long before the 2p2 thread(s)) and that in my expert opinion it was plausible he had put up the impressive results he posted, and that I thought this was plausible because he seemed to have a sharp poker mind.

Hope that clears things up,

Ben

Cliffs from other thread please too.

this please

Well this guy isn't made up, he's worse than that. How ironic that all the conspiracy theorists in the other thread, who looked a little silly, didn't even go far enough in their criticism of this guys story.

I don't know how anyone could scam anybody and look themselves in the mirror, especially people who had their trust. It kind of makes me shudder reading he tried to lure sauce into a trap, who had helped him out so much and vouched for him in public. Girah has been lying about his results obviously... so he should refund the people he coached as well as those he scammed...

As for fwf's point that JM/DIH/Sauce vouching for him is seperated from the trust people put in him I disagree. I feel bad for those guys, they trusted the wrong dude and now some people think its all on them, but a guy with the backing of three of online poker's most respectable members will have a lot of stock especially amongst grinders who want to get better... we'd all love to have a guy like sauce or JM give us advice so having a guy they call a prodigy come along and want to help us out would be great, we'd trust him because they trusted him and even though we don't know them from adam we trust them too.

The poker world is weird, we don't know anything about the people we put our trust in really, and when something goes wrong nothing is ever truly done about it

Between this and your work in the Ivey thread, you have to be some kind of weird troll/shill or just someone who gets off on being a contrarian. We get it, you think discussing a live hand is tantamount to scamming. No one else thinks that. Go away.

"to be the best you have to cheat the best"

rip doyle

Not sure if srs.

Stop with the trolling

JOSE confirmed scum/trash bag as i knew from the start. DIH also very shady imo...we need an explanation as to why jose claims you were logged into his account in the first place. first you try to kill the ashman, now you try to scam hsnl through jose???

haseeb...the REAL slumdog millionaire

I also want to defend DiH and Jungleman. I don't have any special information attesting to their involvement or non involvement in this, I just want to state that at this time I see no reason whatsoever to believe they were involved in scamming. They clearly were taken in by Jose as well, which might make people question their judgement in choosing friends, but there is absolutely no reason to believe they formed a relationship with Jose for some nefarious purpose. To be fair, I haven't read every single post in the 2800+ posts on this topic, so I may have missed something, but in what I have read I see nothing implicating them in some massive scheme or whatever and to condemn them without strong evidence is wrong.

Ben

I agree, good post. I was one of those who had hard time believing the picture Girah had painted of himself in the original I am José "Girah" Macedo, the so-called "Portuguese Poker Prodigy" thread. Wasn't too convinced even after some respected 2+2'ers voiced their highly touted opinions on him. Especially DogIsHead. I mean, Girah might be FOS but proving otherwise with limited resources and having someone like DIH make strong supporting/vouching statements and "backing them up" with a prop bet of any amount is pretty disarming. Maybe DIH's biggest bluff ever?

I might sound a bit of a wiseass "Iknewit" but it just infuriates me seeing well known and respected people like DIH and Jungleman vouch for this guy so lightly and then more or less just brush it off and absolve themselves of any responsibility.

Girah is a lowlife scammer s.o.b. that hopefully gets jailed. Obv I don't really know much at all of Jungleman's and DIH's involvement on this but especially the latter one has all sorts of red flags over him regarding this case. I fully expect this thing to be larger than just a lone idiot scammer that is Girah. We need high profile scandals (or scamdals!) like this to pollute the poker landscape as much as a fish needs a bicycle (yah unoriginal wit, I wish I had DIH write this post for me so it would be more eloquent).