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Old 06-27-2016, 07:13 AM   #2151
SootedPowa
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

I played with Ansky $1/2 zoom well before Amaya took over. In isolation doesn't mean much. What does mean much is net rake taken in after rewards now and then. Don't think we are likely to see those figures.

Last edited by SootedPowa; 06-27-2016 at 07:13 AM. Reason: got owned obv
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:15 PM   #2152
TrustySam
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Guess there was that small, but very vocal group of proponents of the Amaya changes who kept posting that the rake increases/reward decreases were going to be good for the ecosystem, because pros would just quit rather than 'trickle down'. And with more money for promos, the tables would be filled with fish who would last longer, and therefore games would grow.

It seemed like such a funny argument, because it didn't even seem like Amaya truly believed the changes were really going to be 'good for the ecosystem'!

Guess a couple of people might have felt like if something's bad for pros, it must be 'good' overall, or something like that? And then one of the posters just seemed to be trolling


Ya, that pic of the zoom lobby from last night isn't the greatest evidence of trickle down, since it was just temporary and the effect might have been minimal. But guess it seemed like this little snapshot in time kind of showed things to be different from the predictions of the supporters of the changes?

- 500nl zoom isn't overflowing with fish, it's empty
- so promos haven't help
- and while some regs must have quit (some of it might be seasonal, and due to the WSOP), at least one responded to the decrease in traffic by moving down stakes

Must say, the Pyramid promo does seem to be helping 10nl zoom - but it doesn't seem like the proceeds of the SNE changes are being used to fund that promo, since people have to play so much to complete each daily challenge, it winds up paying for itself.

Maybe the Pyramid promo might actually show that *increasing* rewards (and *lowering* effective rake) is what actually helps improve games, and not the opposite?

i don't know
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:33 AM   #2153
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
i don't know
you don't need screen shots or caluclations, b/c it's pretty simple ... less money comes in, so you change a few things, that less money goes out - poker economy 101
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Old 06-28-2016, 07:43 AM   #2154
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
Sorry to bump up an old thread - but guess every time rake gets raised or VIP bonuses get cut back, one of the concerns of a lot of players is the possibility that players might start moving down stakes ... either because the games get too hard, or because the games don't run as frequently? Which was something that was met with a bit of doubt from some people (it might have just been PocketDucks?? )

Just spotted what appears to possibly be evidence of 'trickle down' - if Innerpsy would usually play higher than 200nl, but his regular game isn't running?




Anyways, thought this might help save a lot of back and forth, if next time benefits are cut, people voice concerns about 'trickle down', and others are doubtful?
Its summer and the Eurocup is running.
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:57 AM   #2155
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansky View Post
If we don't sign the NDA, then we don't get to see data that justifies (to them at least) their decisions. My impression is that PokerStars approached this meeting in good faith and is not interested in sabotaging our review of the meeting. You don't have to believe that if you don't want to, but that is my honest impression.

Our statement should be up within 24 hours. We got it approved from Stars and are just finalizing a few details.
Why are you assuming what they tell you is the truth?
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Old 10-22-2016, 05:38 PM   #2156
Richas
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Sorry if bumping this thread stirs some bad memories, I certainly don't want to kick off the row again.

Those who were most aggrieved at these bonus/vip/rakeback changes and the notice given may be interested in the investigation launched by the UK Competition and Markets Authority working with the UKGC available here:

https://www.gov.uk/cma-cases/online-gambling

Quote:
Case information
21 October 2016: The launch of this investigation follows concerns raised by the Gambling Commission about potential breaches of consumer law in the online gambling industry. The CMA has conducted an initial review of complaints information and a number of gambling firms’ promotions and terms and conditions. We are now launching an investigation to determine whether we should exercise our consumer protection powers to tackle unfair or misleading behaviour in the industry.

Press release: CMA launches investigation into online gambling (21.10.16)
We are especially concerned that players may be losing out as a result of:

Being locked into complex and strict requirements linked to gaming promotions that are difficult to understand and may be unachievable.
Companies having a wide discretion to cancel bets or alter odds after bets have been accepted, because they made a mistake when the odds were first set.
Terms restricting players’ ability to challenge a company’s decision.
See our press release above for a full list of our concerns.
There are numerous maainstream UK media articles on this but none improve on the press release here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...nline-gambling

AS for the seriousness/powers of this - The CMA have huge powers and can levy fines of up to 10% of global turnover - they never get near to that, the highest I recall is £45m for a drug company racket to do with generic (off patent) drugs.

Quote:
Contact
We would like to hear from you if you have experience of these issues. Please contact us at Gambling@cma.gsi.gov.uk and state clearly in the subject line of your email whether the information relates to sign-up promotions, altered odds or cancelled bets, or terms that restrict the ability to claim.
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:02 PM   #2157
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Good bump; this sounds very relevant.
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:11 PM   #2158
ike
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Thanks for posting Richas. I'd love to see this get some serious regulatory attention.

Couple questions:

Is there any point in people who reside outside the UK contacting them?

What would you put in the subject line as an aggrieved SNE? Terms that restrict the ability to claim?
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:46 PM   #2159
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

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Originally Posted by ike View Post
Thanks for posting Richas. I'd love to see this get some serious regulatory attention.

Couple questions:

Is there any point in people who reside outside the UK contacting them?

What would you put in the subject line as an aggrieved SNE? Terms that restrict the ability to claim?
I just wouldn't say anything about being out of the UK. Put title line 'Pokerstars VIP terms changed against stated of VIP Scheme' or something like that.
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Old 10-23-2016, 01:22 AM   #2160
Richas
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by ike View Post
Thanks for posting Richas. I'd love to see this get some serious regulatory attention.

Couple questions:

Is there any point in people who reside outside the UK contacting them?
Definitely worth submitting from outside the UK, actually good to point that out to them. The UKGC is the only regulator able to require licencing that has global reach. Previously sites were choosing a regulator themselves and so the UKGC is the only one that can get an effective Competition review/investigation to stick not just EU wide but gobally.

For CMA people a firm with about 70% of a global market maya) doing stuff to impose on consumers arbitrarily is the sort of thing that gets them moist/gives them a hard on. Having it global just makes it sexier for them.

Quote:
What would you put in the subject line as an aggrieved SNE? Terms that restrict the ability to claim?
I'd put "sign up promotion - arbitrary change to reward scheme". It isn't wholly clear which of their investigation teams will get it in the end but it is promotion "dishonesty/Change" rather than a barrier to withdrawing funds or voiding bets/promos for individuals.

Some may recall I was not entirely sold on the SNE case (despite sympathy and concerns re monopoly power/announcement timings) so my submission will not include this one - others will put it better.
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:38 AM   #2161
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

"Bait and switch" seems an appropriate term for it.
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:35 AM   #2162
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

This company used to be the customers best friend once upon a time. Those times are LONG gone.

Got an email yesterday with a promotion, saying if I deposited $50 I would get a $20 Freebet. Did exactly as described in the email. Of course read the T&C`s. The Freebet was suppose to be in my account within 5 minutes after I deposited.

I waited 1 hour. No freebet. Emailed support.

NO ANSWER for over 24 hours.

They used to answer within 10 minutes.
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Old 10-23-2016, 05:01 PM   #2163
kelnel
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

We keep talking about SNE, But we are forgetting about all the supernovas that got shafted also, which is wayyyyyyy more people, as it is pretty much all semi-serious grinders that was on the site, who got shafted the same way.

IN TOTAL AMOUNTS of money pocketed by stars in the VIP changes, the money taken from SUPERNOVAS was far more important than the SNE amount.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:40 PM   #2164
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelnel View Post
We keep talking about SNE, But we are forgetting about all the supernovas that got shafted also, which is wayyyyyyy more people, as it is pretty much all semi-serious grinders that was on the site, who got shafted the same way.

IN TOTAL AMOUNTS of money pocketed by stars in the VIP changes, the money taken from SUPERNOVAS was far more important than the SNE amount.
^^^
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:05 AM   #2165
efra
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Unbelievable to see how the first place of Sunday Million has got down from 220k normally, to 144k today?? Amaya getting worse and worse everyday
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:24 AM   #2166
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelnel View Post
We keep talking about SNE, But we are forgetting about all the supernovas that got shafted also, which is wayyyyyyy more people, as it is pretty much all semi-serious grinders that was on the site, who got shafted the same way.

IN TOTAL AMOUNTS of money pocketed by stars in the VIP changes, the money taken from SUPERNOVAS was far more important than the SNE amount.
This.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:01 AM   #2167
GazzyB123
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Would encourage literally everybody who was affected by this to send an email. Instead of getting like 20 emails from SNEs who were shafted, they'd take it far far more seriously if they got 1,000 emails from all VIP levels.

Perhaps someone draft a template with bits people can change (e.g. username, VIP level etc), and we can bombard the UKGC!
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:02 PM   #2168
LektorAJ
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

In my deep and dark past as an eco-warrior I was told that government bodies etc. have a formula that weights the level of interest of citizens - for example one person writing a letter is worth about 1000 people signing a petition (because the person writing a letter stands for the 999 who care about the issue but didn't write the letter).

I'm not sure where pasting one's name into a template email would rank but probably more towards signing a petition than writing a letter.
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Old 10-25-2016, 12:38 AM   #2169
sandr1x
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ View Post
In my deep and dark past as an eco-warrior I was told that government bodies etc. have a formula that weights the level of interest of citizens - for example one person writing a letter is worth about 1000 people signing a petition (because the person writing a letter stands for the 999 who care about the issue but didn't write the letter).

I'm not sure where pasting one's name into a template email would rank but probably more towards signing a petition than writing a letter.
Interesting point. So we need a couple of hundreds of different templates then, I guess


On a more serious note, I've got around 700 poker followers on my Russian blog over at GipsyTeam (sick brag, I know), so if any of you native-speakers could arrange some kind of a template - I would definitely appreciate your help and will spread the word. If not - I'll try to do it myself.

Last edited by sandr1x; 10-25-2016 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 10-25-2016, 01:24 AM   #2170
LektorAJ
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richas View Post
... is the sort of thing that gets them moist/gives them a hard on.
NVG making its first baby steps towards a bright, politically correct future by abandoning male-normative language

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandr1x View Post
Interesting point. So we need a couple of hundreds of different templates then, I guess
- well at least the native speakers should try to change bits of the email around to help it count as a unique email rather than a template.
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Old 10-27-2016, 07:09 AM   #2171
Richas
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

If and when you contact the CMA about this (or other unfair Ts&Cs, non payment of compensation or unfair seizing of funds or failure to deal with cheating) this is the automated email you will get.

Quote:
Thank you for taking the time to contact the CMA about your experience. The information you have helpfully provided will inform our understanding of the remote gambling sector.

Please note the following about the information you have provided:
The CMA will not intervene in individual disputes and cannot enter into correspondence with you. Information about how to raise a complaint about a gambling company can be found on the Gambling Commission’s website. You can also contact Citizens Advice for practical help and advice.

Unless you indicate otherwise, we will assume that the information you have provided is intended to be used by us and is to be shared or disclosed only so far as is necessary and in line with legal requirements. All information is handled in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 and other legislation designed to protect individual privacy and commercial confidentiality.
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Old 10-27-2016, 12:11 PM   #2172
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by efra View Post
Unbelievable to see how the first place of Sunday Million has got down from 220k normally, to 144k today?? Amaya getting worse and worse everyday
Yeah, what happened there?
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Old 10-27-2016, 02:29 PM   #2173
MR McDonald
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAlimper View Post
This company used to be the customers best friend once upon a time. Those times are LONG gone.

Got an email yesterday with a promotion, saying if I deposited $50 I would get a $20 Freebet. Did exactly as described in the email. Of course read the T&C`s. The Freebet was suppose to be in my account within 5 minutes after I deposited.

I waited 1 hour. No freebet. Emailed support.

NO ANSWER for over 24 hours.

They used to answer within 10 minutes.

there is a live online chat option not sure where it is in the client but i have had it pop up last few days
maybe send a email asking for this option or try finding it
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Old 10-28-2016, 02:13 AM   #2174
AllBlackDan
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Anyone affected please raise this and start the fire please.

Man I want Amaya to be destroyed so bad
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Old 10-28-2016, 02:31 AM   #2175
Limitbreak
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Re: Pokerstars VIP club changes plan removal of SNE

Can anyone confirm that they plan to remove supernova sometime after during the new year?? I remember briefly reading some article about it.

I've chased supernova all year and on track but if they plan to remove it then it'll all be for ought. This shafts far more customers than SNE, again they announced the changes well towards the end of the year.
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