500 zoom might not run much anymore, forget about 1k ever running anymore lol. I wonder what effect it will have on the liquidity of the PLO pools at low stakes too.

1) they don't undercut the bulk of players, they undercut maybe 1% of the players (which are also undesired players btw).

2) They will obv make less money in the short term (via poker) as there are less tables, but that is money they will make 'tomorrow' (via poker) or maybe even 'today' via 'casino games'.

how often do you think do recs withdraw? once the money is on the site, its just a matter of when stars will get it (and not if) and they want to eliminate all competitors to this money.

for the majority of stakes stars does not need regs to provide liquidity. they just don't need us, srsly, they don't.

stars is just trying to eliminate unwanted clients, you really can't argue from a business standpoint. i'd be doing the same.

This is so wrong in so many ways that I need to wake up more before I can educate you.

What you call 1 % of the players is actually responsible for a huge part of stars rake. They dont even withdraw that much! As I posted in the internetpoker thread, here are the winrates of the biggest volume players on stars. All these dude will win less/lose more. they will simply stop playing. The games will run so little that I dont understand how these cuts in rewards could ever be worthy for stars. no one will make money.

Also, consider that the rest of the pool is likely less good than those guys, thus making even less (or dare I say, lose even more). Look at their overall winrate (PLO in particular). all winrates are POST RAKEBACK

So if you leave PS because of all this, where do you play next?

Are people outraged at the depth of the cuts?

Anyone with half a brain knew they were coming for a big chunk.

go on pokerscout(.)com and see the ones with most traffic

Yeah all the other sites suck, but yeah, that's life.

your point? Youre not allowed to be outraged because you could see it coming? wutwut

Stars can do what they like until sufficient evidence that they can't. Amaya are in the profit business. They literally hold all the cards. They will taking a larger slice of the reg's pie until such times as it hurts their projected bottom line. Player pools are slowly dwindling. Stars have the regs where they want them. So much can be achieved when people are apathetic. Stamp feet, post in threads, but keep loading the tables, gotta grind and Stars is the best/only show in town. Until it ain't the drip drip drip will continue. And almost nobody will do anything much beyond starting threads, whining, wanking more or less, so it goeth.

Stars could do this and still be the best option for those wishing to play that much volume.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...stars-1451595/

#5 nailed it

As far as I can tell they haven't announced changes for SNG players?

I rake close to 10k per month on average. How much rake does a rec who desosits 100 dollars on Sunday night to play a tournament/sit on nl100 to "spin it up" pays? $6? If they stop 100 dedicated volume heavy small-midstakes regs like me they need 10s of thousands of recs to make up for that. They need us bad. They just think they can get away with it and we`ll continue playing there cause there`s no alternative, however they are wrong...

those 1% are NOT paying a single cent of rake.

they convert 'others deposits' into rake, yes. but those 'other deposits' are not lost to stars if they are not converted today (which is what regs are doing). if this rake can be converted tomorrow or via other means (casino games) into stars profits, then its more profitable for stars to remove the 1%.

100% the rake comes from net depositing players.

it's also completely ridiculous to think that stars is cutting themselves into their own flesh with this. They have spent one year on this to make sure the they are better of afterwards. You do NOT know better how to ran a poker site than stars.

That's just ridiculous statements. A ton of things have been tried by other sites and they failed. They are too now trying some stuff while being on top. Sure they might be able to squeeze some extra money out of it but it's not because they are called PokerStars that they cannot make mistakes.

With players like you gone, there's still a game. With recs gone, games are dead unless you want to play only against other players like you. Most regulars don't want to do that.

Without people depositing, there's no money that the site can rake. That wasn't a problem when enough people were willing to deposit fresh money, so the sites focused on providing incentives for players to generate more rake. Over the years, the percentage of players who are willing to deposit, decreased significantly. Now the platforms basically battle the regulars over who gets to that money first.

It's a sad development, but PokerStars is not the first site that changes it's business model to focus on recreational players and it won't be the last. The question is, if there's going to be a site that not only keeps the focus on regulars but also is willing to spend big money to attract recreational players. Because again, nobody wants to play at a reg-only poker site.

There's one big difference: Other sites have a track record of failing, Stars has a track record of getting where they want. Perfect example: Spin and Gos. Lots of regulars hated on them from day one and still do, for good reason. But Stars couldn't be more happy about implementing those games.

I believe they are doing a mistake doing this as SNE do have some value for them in liquidity they bring to the tables.

At 5/10+ rabeback is a very tiny part of a pro's profit and look how often the game runs, barely ever and it's full of seat scripters. Now rakeback start to be a big part of a pro's profit at 1/2 and lower and look how much more active these games are. You can sit at anytime of the day and just play for the sake of playing. I for one won't put nearly as much time on poker in general as before this change and now I might squeeze my play on a couple other sites just because the RB is no longer an incentive to give a room 100% of my play.

If a small % of the reg pool change their predilection site it might bring back game liquidity to other sites and that in short might bring fun players to them because games will be running more often.

Fun players are a big part of a room success but I believe liquidity is important.

I'm aware that SNE will exist in name in 2016, but it will be worth less than regular SN is now, and worth only a tiny fraction of the value that is still promised on their website right now.

I love the logic of your (non existing) argument.

It's always amusing when people say 'this is ridiculous' just to back it up by nothing.

Armya != PokerStars. The track record you are referring to doesn't belong to Armya. This is basically their first move. Spin and goes were probably in the pipeline when armya bought PS.

Your line of thought that PS won't do any wrong because they are PS and they thought about this for 1 year is very wrong but who am I to argue with some nvgturd. You are probably right. All Heil PS

I still need to hear a single argument why those changes are bad for pokerstars.

Just because regs make less money is not an argument, well it is, but one for the changes, not against.

It's lots of the same people responsible and I've heard about plans to shift towards the recreational players business model before they were bought by Amaya.

I don't disagree but in general when you take a private company and go public with it the philosophy shift towards a more aggressive approach to squeeze profits. So while the management is still about the same their mission probably shifted or their target shifted. I have no doubt SNE would have seen a cut under old management at some point , it has been in the air for quite some time but 70% cut is the line Amaya imposed. I'd bet a ton the old true PS management would have cut way less.

Dude you are the one using an invalid argument like "PS never did any wrong therefore this move is good". You don't have to be Einstein to see how wrong is your reasoning.

I personally cannot wait to see this unfold as I couldn't care less anymore about online poker. It's been my home for years but I have been working past 6 months on other ventures and poker is no longer an end game for me.